Ban the phone co’s because you don’t like the conversations ?

Just as ‘ Facebook protests’ give rise to democratic protests in Russia against rigging of elections by Mr Putin, the Indian Government seeks to curtail the reach and the voice of individual protest in the world largest democracy.

Had this attempt not come so close to elections in India where the future of the new scion to the Nehru dynasty was at stake. Had this attempt not come at a point where there is a huge loss of faith in the very functioning of India ‘s democratic process. Had this not come so close to the Government’s credibility bring challenged by Anna Hazare’s movement.

Had it not come so close to all these events one might concede more credibility to the Government’s latest threats to Google, Twitter, Orkut and Facebook, as a means of coming to terms with the larger social objectives of our Nation as a whole.

In a flawed electoral system the rise and rise of Social Networking actually brings the nation closer to the intentions our founding fathers built into our constitution. It gives the electorate greater access to a world view. Dispels the ability of political parties to lie and attempt to cage their electorate in ignorance. Allows groups to reach out and create action groups and communities to fight for their rights and express their grievances to the rest of the world across geographies.

It brings the world together in so many more ways than ever possible before. I don’t need to quote Arab Spring and Global Warming as just two of the many social issues that Social Networking has managed to address and change.

So what’s the Government ( not only in India) afraid of ? It’s afraid of the unknown. Social Network is a game changer in the playing out of democracy, and the Government (and Governments all over the world) are caught unawares. All political parties, their elected representatives, whether they sit in opposition or in Government have spent their political lives based on a set of parameters they have come see as sacrosanct. Moral or immoral, those parameters are the only ones they understand. The world has changed beneath their feet.

How do they now fight elections when (in time) 300 million of their electorate does not play by the same rules anymore ? Not only individually but also through their ability to greatly influence each other ? A new breed of politician that understands this, understands how to use Social Networking, and works within it,  will rise.

The current politicians are afraid of that new politician. But the use of Social Networking by Barrack Obama for his fund raising a few years ago actually rang the bells of change loud.

No Government or system has ever been able to stand against the march of technology. Let me take the most simplistic example. Could you take away the microphone at a political rally ? Simplistic as it is, it is a medium of mass communication without which election rally’s in India would not exist.  If you do not like the conversations over the phone, would you penalize the phone company ? Of course where security issues are involved Governments do step in. But to hold the phone company liable would be to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

For any  ‘Gatekeeper ‘ the ability of the individual to communicate and share content with each other at a mass level is scary. If its true of Music Companies, Hollywood Studios and  major Corporations, it is true of Governments. Their very role as a gatekeeper of people’s expressions and ideas and lives is questioned. Companies like Google, Twitter and Facebook are successful because they are not ‘Gatekeepers’.  They are ‘Platformers’.  The 100 billion dollar valuation for Facebook exists because they do not ‘gatekeep’ your communications.  If they did, the companies would not exist.

Yes there are video’s posted, or content posted on the Internet that are immoral and against the law. That encourage racial conflict.  But I believe the platforming companies are pretty good about removing such content.  All you have to do is complain and if there are enough complaints then that content will be taken off. You only have to look at how quickly the Internet companies and Governments all over respond to child pornography on the net.  (least in India actually)  But hey ! if there is something against a politician (say a video) and that gets 10 million odd hits in a week, and thousands of comments, does that not say something about how the community feels ?  To try and stop that is completely undemocratic , is it not ?

One last thing.  Censorship on the Internet is only possible if you shut the Internet down.  Google, Facebook and Twitter are only vulnerable because of their size and desire for valuation. Take them down and thousands of alternate sites for platforming content will sprout up.  Take them down and ten thousand will sprout up.  People have found the power to express themselves and will not give it up easily.  The growing community of hackers, some still in their teens, have shown that no Government or Corporation in the world is able to ‘ban’ them.

The Internet and freedom of expression is here to stay.

23 thoughts on “Ban the phone co’s because you don’t like the conversations ?

  1. Freedom expression is there no one can stop it..people will not listen to such things…
    with google..facebook twitter and such other sites the weak voices will also come the presence of such sites is also justified..

    ban or bringing them down can not be justified..

    basically the people also report these sites about such bad writings or comments and sites also take actions on it…still then if there are some cases then these sites should further improve themselves in those areas their acceptance will further increase..may be they will have to make more efficient search engines..or word vocabulary..

    the simplistic example I am typing my comment, if there is a spelling mistake it underlines in wise such offensive words need be counted and that particular comment can be banned..if these sites thinks in these way…it serve the purpose..I think…:)

    see no one can stop any revolution..

    thanks and take care..subodh

    the problem starts when someone start saying any countries prime minster, president or any historic figures in extremely worst sort of abusive language..hate speeches etc..

  2. It has started to seem that the internet is beginning to emerge as the liberator of angst and human suffering by connecting people across all lines. No doubt, this has been supplemented by the ease of posting videos using a simple device as a mobile phone. This is a grave threat to any kind of oppression.
    The challenges for India are that this will not penetrate the masses till we go beyond the basics. In that sense, the media plays a major role at the moment. A smart political party in power, can seize this opportunity and turn it into a strength by moving fast enough to enable and then influence the electorate using the internet as a tool. But such a party does not exist at the moment. The cronies that hold on to power with everything that they have got, will have to be dragged out kicking and screaming if it is to happen. That way a huge opportunity stares the Gandhi scion in the face but he will need to do something that has never happened in the past and redefine the party.
    Either way, the days of the cocktail mix of power and enormous wealth are numbered……..unless tremendous social responsibility is demonstrated.

    Shekhar, it is people like you who can make a change in this society by assuming leadership…….that way Kiran Bedi and Arvind Kejriwal have displayed tremendous courage.

  3. Hardly any political party now-a-days get 50% seats in parliament, that means number of voter who don’t like political party is more than number of voters like them. This is true for all political parties.

    Why should we not ban those politicians and political parties which are not liked by people?

  4. They’re scared because we are for the first time taking corruption at serious level and sharing our views…It’s impacting their “pocket money” which they get by scams…A very well written article which shows the true picture of the dirty politics happening around.

  5. Hangama hai kyon barpa…

    I don’t know why Indian govt. is afeard so much and why every time comman man is targeted. Govt is trying to censor the voice of comman man but our “Honorable” ministers/politician can say any thing and have “Rights to insult” any one.

    What does govt do againest Shashi Tharoor & Digvijay Singh(Do I need to mention WHY?).

    People will follow the leaders no matter how he/she is.

  6. I really do not know whether you will get to read my two bits.

    Why all the acts of Government should be read only from a political point of view! I also got the idea that somehow YouTube must be banned in India after the number of views it counted of “Why this kolaveri de”. I am not a ‘khadoos” {Do you know any reason why always the Hindi Master Ji must be made a ‘Khadoos’ and never the English teacher?}. My pain is not that no one listens to Tina Saini singing, ” Chandni dil dhukhati rahi raat bar” [ in case you are getting curious is the link].

    My pain is that people listen to “distansu la moonu, moon colour whitu, …. Night blacku…… girl skin white ….girl heart blacku. I wouldn’t like my sons, grandsons, great grandsons and great great grandsons ever entertain any idea of colour of skin. I am pretty sure you also share the same view.

    Kids at 21 ( a third of my age) coming out with ideas like ” handla glassu, glassla scotchu eyes full of tearsu” should not be allowed to air their views. If you are holding a drink it is to be enjoyed……. I prefer Indian ( why is it called Indian made Foreign Liquor I have no clue)….. Positive idea should be encouraged and negative ideas must be uprooted.
    Have you even wondered, of the ten books of Rig-Veda, book-2 wholly dedicated to Somarus, the elitist drink of the bygone days? It also talks of the pressing stone. Do you realise who completely it has vanished from our scriptures. None of the other three Vedas have even a clue about this.

    I don’t say people should only publish lines like, “Phir sawa saayay e shak e gul ke thale, koi kissa sunathe rahi raat bur.” or listen to Tina. I am as much friends with Kina. Kina Grannis’s performances start with ideas and then words expressing them. She could say things like don’t touch my hand and say I am in love if you don’t have the strength to hold it through the night and she is also in her twenties ( I believe she also started writing, composing and singings from her school days).

    Another Kid Justin writing words like, “When you are mine, in this world, there will be one less lonely girl” is the brilliance of mankind and all those crap bitchy girls and plain stupid guys post ….
    I wonder how many of the over 100 million non-Tamil viewers understand that “Kolaveri” means murderous madness and the usage is , “If there is one place on earth that needs to nuked it is Tamil Nadu is a ‘kolaveri’ idea”.

    Does it not make people sad that this world’s largest industry could not find any better protagonist other than ‘Silikku’? Before that the same producer came out with a bio pic of Haji Mastan.
    Are there no writers in the country that is credited with Khatha Saritha Saagar who could create some fictional characters (and not characterless)?

    Why cannot ordinary people like you and I see drama in the life a Burma repatriate (Instead of a coastal Andhra migrant) when she takes to club dancing and at the same time live a conservative life ?

    FREEEDOM PRESUPPOSES RESPONSIBILITY. I know easier said and I myself have asked this question, who is the one to decide. And yet that is the truth…. whether the FED Supreme Court of USA agrees or not. If you get married, and get together and don’t take any precaution, also don’t take any remedial action, soon after a sudden burst of passion….. you may not claim a right to abort as a part of right to person whereas a rape victim sure has it as a part of right to person. This exactly is where freedom has its root. The rapist becomes a criminal because he is responsible for his actions and the victim’s right to abort is a part of her right to person which was violated.

    Another way of saying it is wherever there is a ‘platform’, there has to be a ‘gate keeper’. That is the way of acting with responsibility. You cannot set up a platform and then refuse to have a gate keeper. It is like saying I will have a night club in Delhi but will not have entry control nor will employ bouncers.

    Right to expression is fundamentally restricted by the right to life with dignity and freedom for all the following generations. When a mom-dad store (I don’t know whether you have them in LA …. but we sure do have them in San Jose) robbed by a flash mob, of kids prone to violence, Somehow text messaging and kids night out must get restricted and I am not talking about the grand pa and grand ma who own the stores. Its about the enigma of what is seen and what is not seen. What is seen is that the old couple suffered some injuries (if they died… any case they were about to). What is not seen is the damage done to the hearts and minds of the young adults. How many young adults can the jails hold and even if the jails are enhanced, who is going to do the work that you have been doing? The mom-dad stores came up and continued to exist because it was needed in locality.

    It is time to put on your thinking cap. What survive are those that are directly or indirectly protecting the interest of the microscopic Mid Atlantic Anglophones anything opposed to this small group shuts down or is put down or is killed.

    Sorry about my two bits being a bit too long


  7. Kris,

    Freedom is nothing but lack of restrictions. More restrictions you have, less free you are. However, certain restrictions are required to keep country in order, but those restrictions have to be minimal not extensive.

    Slavery exists with different attractive names. What you explain as spoiling of culture is actually freedom for others, and what you advocate (restriction on YouTube) is actually a kind of sign of slavery.

    Of course, responsibility has to be enforced with freedom, but again, just because someone like some song doesn’t make them irresponsible. Among the lover of that songs, you will easily find many people who are very responsible and providing goods and services to society. Just because they like watching something doesn’t make them irresponsible.

    There are people who want to ban woman from working, or stop using English, or ban Muslims from Voting, or ban TV, or ban non-vegetarian food, or ban foreigners from coming to India. People willing to do that kind of things will always try to justify it, but summing all them will make us nothing but slave.

    A good thing about people who believe in freedom is that, they don’t try to enforce such restrictions on others. E.g. Some of those who likes “Why this kolaveri de” may not like “Munni badnaam hui” and they will not demand that “Munni badnaam hui” should be banned. That is respect for others freedom.

    If you don’t like something, just don’t look at it. Remember, Gandhiji didn’t like drinking liquor, but he didn’t try ban liquor in India even though he had enough status and power to do so. That is moral of Freedom.

    Trying to enforce our own standard of ethics on others will lead to ever lasting clash. I hope you understand this.



  8. Govt should know that social media is acting like a safety valve in a cooker. Closing it will bring a violent explosion.

  9. Bharat,

    It is good that you took time respond and I appreciate it much.
    In fact I was reading some excerpts forwarded by a friend of mine. The Title of the Book is THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE FREE: The Germans 1933 – 45 By Milton Mayor. Excerpt from pages 166-73 of They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 by Milton Mayer, published by the University of Chicago Press.1955, by the University of Chicago, to be more precise. I don’t know whether you have read it or would be interested. Of course he has forwarded it with reference to what is happening in the US currently.
    “Freedom is lack of restrictions” may be a good one liner for copy writing for an ad. But is it true? Think again. The freedom as we know today is rooted in the restriction forced on King John of England, in think 1066. Even otherwise, your idea of slavery is ill conceived. Your views are just short of saying that parents and schools should not put restrictions on the youths.
    Born in a country whose freedom movement is moored to issues related to colour of skin, originating in South Africa, I do not understand how you can put up a defence of ‘Rights’ to a song that talks of white skin of a girl.
    The whole problem is this. Most people are misled into this concept of freedom to whatever one chooses by educational institutions, news media and now social media. Generations after generations are led to believe that the right to have fun is the first and foremost right. The very purpose of organising society is based on a duty to restrict individual freedom to a minimum. Fundamental Right s appearing in our Constitution is actually a Fundamental Restriction on the unlimited rights of individual.
    On a global level if you think of democracy, free-trade, liberty, freedom etc. are anything beyond words, you have a lot to learn. When Hanoi was bombed on the 25th December 1972, there was only one man who spoke out….. US Administration is no different from Nazis…. Olaf Palme of Sweden had said. He was assassinated and any one can guess by whom. “It takes just one bullet” Bush had said ( by then internet had come into existence) Iraq did not have any WMD . There is no other country where more people of tortured and human rights violated than Saudi Arabia and PR China. No they are not to be touched and so internet and Messaging are no threat to the powers of these countries. But on the issue of US’s debts, Putin had made some remarks….so the internet is to be used to promote insurgency in Russia. In Libya civil war was created not because there was any people’s movement but because under the land, the oil belonged to the Texans – Hunt Brothers, which was nationalised But the same messaging system does not work out in New York for the OWS gang. They get pepper sprayed so that they cannot read the message. Then the Mayor Michael Bloomberg says he has the seventh largest army. Have you ever wonders how come that only in countries marked for change by the US these social networking seek to be working so well.
    Danusu may have his ideas, Mubarak ho. My problem is there are over 12 million fools who do not think and blindly follow. His daughter-in-law may have the most lustrous white skin, besides being the most beautiful woman on earth. Mubarak to him and his son. But I charge him on two counts. First why should he listen to ‘Kolaveri De’ ( really he shouldn’t be having time at all with so much of professional activities and also increased family activities) and second, why should he tweet that the music is good and is careful not say the words suck. (I really do not know whether he himself blogs and tweets or there are some paid copy writers).
    The hundredth monkey effect may or may not be true. But there is always a critical level beyond which changes will occur, whether it is political or social. If enough number of people desire a change and work towards it, knowingly or unknowingly, once the critical level is reached, then it cannot be stopped. Animals and fools think of only today. Wise men think of providing to their children a world not inferior to what they were provided by their parents. SO VALUES ARE IMPORTANT.
    In current political context, Anna may manage to change the government. But the premise has to be checked and verified. It is clearly wrong to look upon a truck driver who has worked in the army as people did look up to M K Gandhi, who was highly qualified, educated, very intelligent far beyond both the British and the Indian leaders could begin to understand. This publicity hogging retired police officer has a sister working in the media as I understand. The changes they are talking about will not and cannot remove corruption.
    In the social context the social net-working is not doing much good, except serve the interests of the powers that be. The fact is the backbone cables and TCP/IP is controlled by a small group of persons favoured by the US Government. There are better reasons why it needs to be controlled at user end as well. What is your problem with my government controlling in my country and my controlling in my family.
    Again use of mobile phone flashing, why should it not be controlled when it is used to rob some defenceless local shop keeper? National in changes in different countries are all scripted in some other country. Why should it prevail?

  10. Kris,

    Thanks for reference to book, I love to read books but I am not sure when I would read it.

    I agree with many of your opinions about USA, Anna etc, but I think that don’t justify why there should be many restrictions on social media. In fact I think social media has played major role in exposing such sins by bad rulers and given opportunity to people to express their views and get together to make meaningful oppose. The wars has been around for thousands of years, the populist oppose to wars became popular only after TV and Internet. Such is positive contribution of media and social networks, and I think it is just beginning.

    For Anna, I think he is popular because the right leader don’t exist and Indians are desperately looking for leadership. Same is reasons behind political success of Laloo, Advani, Sonia, Mulayam, Mayavati, Mamta etc. A charismatic leader like Sardar Patel would have easily defeated them all together. Let’s hope that one will come soon.

    As I wrote in earlier post, certain restrictions are required to keep country in order. You won’t see much controversies around the restrictions placed on schools and parents, because it is not conceived by many as offense on freedom.

    You will find many such examples of restrictions which are accepted by people without mass oppose. Like speed-limit, limits on trade & carry of combative materials, child-porn, entering country without legal permission etc. On the other hand, just because something could have bed impact, or it is perceived useless by some people don’t qualify ban on it. Automobile kills more than 100000 people every year in India, but that doesn’t qualify ban on use of automobiles even-though Indians have lived well & rich 1000s of years without automobiles.

    The exercise on defining standards for everything humankind can do is a worthless exercise. There are already restrictions on internet media, like they have to remove some data when people offended by it request to remove it and the published data is not truthful. Trying to suppress truth because it is incontinent to governments is not going to be accepted by many. If government is truthful, then they would have taken the matter to court, and forced companies to restrict those material because of defamation or any other valid reason.

    We have a legal system in working and if someone find that some songs are racial, they rather go to court. There are many incidences in which courts placed ban on such materials and forced the bearers to offer public apology.

    BTW: Pure-black and pure-white organisations are legal and hardly anyone complain about them for being racial, it is a song which some people find racially offensive. I feel there is something wrong here.

  11. Kris

    u said “It is like saying I will have a night club in Delhi but will not have entry control”

    What about if this gate keeper on night club start taking $$ under table and allow entry for those we want restricted? its his self interest.

    That’s what Govt want to do.

    By the way kolaveri is Better then Choli ke peechhe kya hai, The youtube hits it got because of its tunes which is catchy.. Non-English talking people also loved and hummed that tune..

  12. Sadikk,
    It is indeed good that you gravitated to the same beaten and over beaten issue of collection of money under the table, though it is not the issue of the main post. I do not know how many times have you paid ‘under the door’ (since there are no tables there) to the door keeper at cinema halls to get an entry to view a motion picture. Perhaps never. You asked a question, What about if this gate keeper on night club start taking $$ under table and allow entry for those we want restricted?
    What about if the gate keeper on the night club does not start taking $$ under or on the table ? What about if the gate keeper says ‘NO’ every time?
    You assume ‘gate-keeper’ means the state or the Government and further go on to contend that it is in his personal interest.

    Let me tell you a story; my own story; story of my son, super story, proper story; story of proper conduct.
    On attaining the age of 18 he applied for his passport. He also wanted a driving license for which he went with other college friends living in the neighbourhood. His friends, one a son of a civil contractor and the other a big time textile importer from China made a deal with one of the touts outside the Traffic authority after collecting their learners license. While two of his friends decided to retain the services of a tout, which of course is a way of covering their own continence, your expression of “under the table”; my son called me with a should he also follow his friends. My answer to him was, “You went to get your learners today and you have got it today. Why do you doubt that you may not get your regular one after the prescribed period of 6 months?” So he opted himself out of the ‘service arrangements’ with the touts. At the end of the six month he went back to the RTA office and he was told that his learners expired the previous day and he does not have a valid learners license on that day and therefore he cannot be issued a regular license nor can he give driving test. So he called back with the same question,
    “Should I go to the tout now? My friends had got their regular months earlier”
    My reply was, “get another learner’s license made and come back. You have an “L” board on the car so there is no problem in your driving since you will not be driving alone and your friends have regular license already.”
    He came back with a fresh learner’s. After 5 months he went back for his driving test, the same inspector was there. My son had taken my car.
    Before the test drive, my son told the inspector, he wanted the license to include two wheelers as well.
    “You have brought only a car. So I can take a test for car driving. You need to bring a bike for a two wheeler for test drive before I can include two wheeler in the license.”
    My son pointed to a bike parked close by and said, “May be I can use this bike for the test.”
    He returned home with a regular driving license that included both car and two wheeler. The bike parked there belonged to the traffic inspector.

    Anyways, it was about a year since he applied for passport but had not got it and he was then in the final year of B.E. All he had to do was to write a personal letter to the Foreign Secretary stating that
    • His application was pending with the RPO for nearly a full year
    • He understood from people around that PRO of the RPO can issue early if urgency can be proved
    • Further that people generally give all kinds of justifications for urgency and get their passport, including printing false marriage invitation cards, fake letters from relative abroad about accident and injury etc.
    • Because of this out of turn application processing, people waiting for their passport do not get it as they would have but for this kind of short circuiting by some, by abusing some provision
    • I need my passport because I plan to go for higher studies abroad after my B E
    • Please advise me whether, having attained the age of 18 years, I should start life by learning to practice dishonest means.

    After three days the Principal Private Secretary to Foreign Secretary, got my number from the two references provided for police verification and called me three days after the letter saying that my son could go to the RPO and collect his passport. I told him that my son is a student and is supposed to be attending his classes and therefore he cannot go to the passport office. His passport was delivered by Registered Post the very next day.
    That is at the micro level. About the macro level of the same issue of corruption, I shall continue in my next mail.
    BTW the Traffic Inspector and my son are friends now and every time he visits India and goes anywhere near the RTA office, he calls on the Inspector

    And Further ‘kolaveri’ is a hate expression. ‘kolai’ means murder and ‘Verri’ means madness. “Choli ke pechchi kay hai’ is nothing wrong …… that is the court ruling also. Tell me what is it that a cow has four while your girl friend (or wife) has only two ……………………………………………………………………..
    there is something fundamentally wrong with you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    if you think of anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other than>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ############## $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    ***************************** LEGS.

  13. Sadikk,

    Everybody talks of corruption. That is my India. A have so far more 15,000 mails from people in Andhra of corruption in Andhra Administration but not one of them could give one single piece of evidence beyond their own words. We as a nation talk too much – and too loud too – and we talk freely about corruption. The TI’s standard is ‘Perceived Level of Corruption’ and India ranks very high by this norm because we see Government Corruption even when we talk of appointment of gate keepers at a private night club, which is not owned by the state.
    One very well known feature of New York City is their yellow cab with a medallion on the bonnet. Last year (i.e.2010) I Pakistani sold his medallion for USD 600,000. It is a permit to pick up and drop passenger on the street. In 2011 sometime in June, one Sardar ji wanted to retire and therefore sell his medallion for USD 700,000. The modal cost of a single family house is USD 200,000 (i.e. if you are not in CA). During this year the transport Department also sold a few medallions, that is after several decades during which period the number of taxi medallion was limited to about 38,000. These were sold to big Taxi companies at a price of USD 700,000 or thereabout for two. Consider this also, on a standard lot ( of quarter acre) the cost of getting clearances in San Francisco ? It is a whopping $ 600,000. Yet nobody talks about corruption in the New York Transport Department.
    Tax payers money is spent in deploying US army world over (the latest addition is Australia…25,000 storng force landed there last week. You see their economy and finances are stable unlike the US and Europe how can they be allowed to be free?)
    All defence contracts are given to a select group of people. YET, no one talks of corruption in the US. Again tax payers money is handed over the some too big to fail banks (In 2010 over 118 banks failed in the US but they did not get any government support) whose employees gave themselves big bonuses out of this handout. No one in the US is complaining about the corruption in the US.
    In my Mera Bharat Mahan, a baby when it comes out of Maternity ward comes out saying our politicians are corrupt. Kushwant Singh mentioned once that when his buffalo passed wind it also said Buff-Ur. The point is we as a nation, all of us, all the time, talk about corruption, whether we have anything to do with it or not. Also we talk without verifying the facts. For example, every Indian is allowed to invest abroad for a number of years now. It used to be upto 25,000 USD. Then it was increased to $ 50,000 and then to $ 200,000 during the time of P Chidambaram. This apart, every time there is an international contract, involving foreign currency, necessarily the Indian company has to hold forex abroad, as hedged funds ( I don’t how this term Hedge Fund has come into usage…. it is an incorrect expression) to protect themselves against currency fluctuations .
    If ten per cent of Indians hold money abroad within the permissible limits the amount should be around 100,000 X 200,000 whatever the amount works out to …………. its in 12 digits. The Swiss banks are interested because their own investments in US markets have put them to great losses and the best way to retain large amounts of liquid cash is to somehow freeze the accounts and shore up their liquidity – of course a kicking the can method – but gives some breathing time to those Swiss banks that are already under water. So they want that India should register a case somewhere so that the accounts can be frozen till the disposal of the case.
    A retired army truck driver says ( perhaps scripted by a retired police officer and an ex- Revenue Service Officer) there is corruption since 1950 and the entire population and the press goes ga-ga over it as if no one knew anything about it earlier.
    If you have read the Bible, one is 13 is always a traitor. The problem of the nation is not corruption at all. Have a look around yourself, your father, brothers and sisters, your friends and their relatives. How many of the people around you are corrupt? No sir, corrupt persons are always, people with no face or faces that you do not recognize. If majority of the people have friends and relatives who are not corrupt, the corrupt becomes a very small minority.
    If Raja had sold spectrum dirt cheap, it was reported in newspapers and yet some others bought it from the allottee paying astronomical prices. If Raja has received money, someone had paid money. Why did he do so? A civil Contractor’s son or a brokers son can pay money for getting what is due to them, because in the first place they are used to an environment where people ‘make’ money without contributing equal value.
    Understand our democracy right. If Raja is guilty, the entire cabinet is guilty as it is a joint responsibility. The way democracies are arranged is that the citizens agree to pay such amounts as may be decided by the Lok Sabha on the guarantee that the Lok Sabha will see that the public money is used for the purpose for which it is collected and for no other purpose. The Executive has no financial powers at all, beyond what is approved in the Lok Sabha. As far as the public is concerned, the Lok Sabha has failed to full its promise to the voters. It was their duty to see to it that the spectrum scam or any other scam does not happen. The police has caught the men who snatched my wife’s gold chain is of no interest to me. It is my right that my wife could walk free on the streets of Delhi and it is the duty of the state to see that this right of mine is protected. WHEN MY RIGHT TO PROPERTY AND RIGHT TO PERSON ARE NOT PROTECTED, the state looses the right collect any form of tax from me and my duty to pay taxes gets extinguished. Holding some poor crook for several 14days periods, totalling to over 7 years, without any judgement of the criminal court, is not in any way connect to my rights to person and property.
    The democracy that we have is total eye wash. The citizen elect the government is a FALSE STATEMENT. Our Government comprises the Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary. In the Union of India we only elect the Lok Sabha members, we don’t even elect the Rajya Sabha members. We do not decide who should be invited to be the Prime Minister (logically the majority party or the party with the Maximum number of seats must be invited …. in some other country in the absence of a clear majority, there is a provision for a rerun) So a group of politicians and political contributors can work out any kind of arithmetic over which voters have no control. We don’t select the cabinet. I don’t even know who is this Raja and why a Raja should be appointed a Mantri. The voters have no control over the appointments to the judiciary. So half of one third of the Government is what we are electing. Five sixth of the Government was the people have no control over. In other words, 87.5 per cent of the government is neither elected by the people nor does it represent the people.
    The constitution does allow the appointment of any person other than a lawyer or a judge as a Judge of the High Courts and the Supreme Court. But in the past over six decades, only lawyers are appointed as judges. There are other sections of legal experts also but they have never even considered. A lawyer who charges over one lakh rupees per case or even per appearance is not going to accept an appointment as a High Court of Supreme Court Judge ( unless he accepts ‘under the table’ payment an expression you have used). An honest lawyer who does have enough briefs to earn Rs.30,000 per month are more likely to accept an appoint to the post of Judge ( without collecting money under the table). What would the calibre of such a judge?
    A corrupt Judiciary will support a corrupt Executive that appointed them to the Judiciary in the first place is a logical statement.

    Then there is the other ruling class called the PERMANENT EXECUTIVE (of which the retired Police Officer and the ex-Revenue Service Officer sidekicks of Anna, were members). NOT ALL ARE CORRUPT. Here there are three sets of situations under which one may seek the corrupt person in preference to the non-corrupt
    (a) Wants to get something which is not permissible under the law
    (b) Wants to get something excessive either in speed or in quantity
    (c) Want something done to which one is entitled and at the ordinary speed of functioning
    For (a) and (b) many of the dishonest persons in the society approach the corrupt in the Permanent Executive. But when it comes to (c) everyone has to approach the Permanent Executive and it is well over 80% of the citizens. It is not that every member of the Permanent Executive. Some of them may do things you are entitled to if they are addressed with respect … it cost mere spoken words. But these are minority among the honest Permanent Executives.
    So my good friends the corrupt in the Permanent Executives do have some values for us the commoners and tax payers. Yes, it does hurt me when he charges some money to issue my passport in the normal course at the normal speed. BUT THEN HE IS A BETTER PERSON THAT HUNDREDS OF THOSE ZOMBIES WHO ARE DRAWING THEIR SALARIES VERY HONESTLY AND NEVER EXPECT ANYTHING FROM ANYONE AND ALSO DO NOTHING.
    Therefore, don’t support any movement to eradicate corruption…. not unless these so called honest persons first start doing some work to deliver the services that public requires and is entitled to.

    If you have read the Bible, you will know one in 13 is a traitor, but why couldn’t the remaining honest followers protect Christ?
    If the so called honest Permanent Executive and also the citizens start doing their share of productive work, the influence of corruption will automatically reduce and finally vanish as far as over 90% of the people are concerned. As for the remaining 10%, it is not in the nature of man to be a Mahatma or a Buddha or a Jesus Christ….


  14. U said there’s nothing wrong in Choli ke peeche kya hai and that is the court ruling… Well i think Court judge was smart enough to answer that Guy is talking about LEGS and not B**Bs when asked what is it that a cow has four while your girl friend (or wife) has only two? 😉

    Ur point taken on Kolaveri di song, but you tell me how many around the world knows Kolaveri means Murder with Madness… But i am sure everyone knows what she means when says Choli ke peeche kya hai.. and even the judge knows that.. and i am sure Judges here use table which is Under table compatible.. 😉

    I dont know about you, But i know where i come from.. I see myself as fighter, survivor and visionary. Just because of one single reason…. I SURVIVED.

    Some 20 year ago while i was in Standard VI Bombay babri masjid riot happened.. That was the last day i went to school.. Coming from family migrated from UP to mumbai in search of Bread with 9 siblings (2 Physically challenged sisters) we were back to square in mumbai riots… Dharavi was first area where riots broke and first day everything earned by my dad was GONE. 2 years later dad left us (In depression) all alone mere with one house in one of most hated area called DHARAVI.

    we had some relatives in Leather business who came forward to help us, and in 1996 i was carrying raw goat hides on bicycles collected from mutton shops across mumbai, apply salt to keep them from rotting, and selling it to earn bread and medicines for my big family mentioned above. doing that i reached 18 and started to use my own brains.. one thing keep disturbing me was this is not the life i wanted… I was good in studies, Loved electronics and Comics since childhood.. i was confused when i found myself applying salt to raw hides… that day i decide this is not what i am going to do… and it was all new beginning..

    Today i am on my workstation which is one of most advance machine right now, chair i am using is from featherlite worth 21k replying on Mr Shekhar Kapoor Blog… though am still in dharavi… But things changed for me.. BIG TIME.

    I started unique import business in which i had to transfer money to other country.. well coming from such background how was i suppose to do that? i went nearest bank ICICI in Mahim… they just laughed on me saying u cant send money like this to any other country.. they just shooed me like a cat or dog.. Was confused walking back home on same footpath i saw travel agency with label of Forex exchange… I hop in there and told them to do this for me.. That time i didnt knew what i am doing is illegal.. they just charged me some extra bucks and KA-BOOM money was with my vendor in UNITED STATES of AMERICA. rest is history…

    I dont want to go long story telling here.. How customs officers tried their best to mint every single possible rupee from someone just because he dont know ABC of this import business.. U saw Rang de basanti? when one of character say yahaan to basics me saari life nikal jati hai, Roti kapda aur makaan ki ladai mein..

    I just want this world to do something for poors… but they do everything for their own interest.. what kind of world we are living in?

    Killing people for the peace? aka War on terror..

    Waging war just to sell weapons? Afghanistan and Iraq.

    throwing governments out of power just to rob their resources? Egypt, Libya and Syria.

    Killing ur own president so that war must go on? JFK (Vietnam).

    Listed Companies making money based on prisoners in jail? Corrections Corp. of America

    recalls a dialogue from movie called 3 idiots “Ye hum kaise desh me rehte hai jahan ambulance se pehle pizza delivery ki guarantee hai”

    you dont see things are utterly wrong here??

    go do your self a favor hunt for movies called, Sicko, 911/Fahrenheit, JFK, Home, Zeitgeist Addendum and Zeitgeist Moving forward.

    Kris ur frustration reminds me of last guy who vote not guilty in classic movie called 12 angry man.

    Whoa that’s lot of writing done today. We are generation who try to explain things in just 140 characters otherwise.. So we have all the RIGHTS not get our 140 character Censored or Pre-listed.

    they cant ban the phone companies just because they dont like the conversation for the same reason they cant ban the Cigarettes companies.. talking about censor on Internet ill agree when they put Sharad Pawars face as statutory warning on Cigarette packs… 😀


  15. Well , Not Surprising at all !

    Everyone makes a hue and cry about anything connected to the word ‘Hindu’ in this country. So any Solutions to the Ethos that has roots in our own Culture are considered’ primitive’ , whereas , Junk theories and Accented English is ‘ Progressive’ .

    The result of ‘Progressive’ theories is rampant Corruption , deviation from common cause , adoption of dubious and deunct theories of the West or China ( I mean Consumerism/Marxism/Maoist ). And Coupled with a Smug attitude that refuses to Learn or adopt anything native , we have a recipe for Fascist /Mafia forces , international Cartels taking over Indian GOvernment !

    India is under grave threat and danger, from its sold-out , blackmailed ruling class , who have shown and will stoop to any level to cover their Evil doings. Now we are told we have a ‘Gandhi Scion’ – STOP USING SUCH EPITHETS. No one in India knows about Sonia Gandhi , Rahul Gandhi , their real antecedents , who controls/handles them.

    The Western sponsored English media and their partners-in-crime , Hindi Media have drummed up and created credence to the word ‘Hindu’ as ‘Communal’ – funny and surprising , because itill the 90’s , when I was a Teen , COmmuncal was used for ‘Muslim League’ , and vote bank politics was called ‘Pseudo-Secular’. Now they have equated Hinduism with Fascism .

    Vinashkale Vipreet Buddhi – For those nearing their End time , the Intelligence goes in reverse Gear.

    The Corrupt forces/Mafia/Cartel that is ruling India is serving/or directly connected to Europe. They dont like Democracy. I wrote before – in India and Elsewhere ( including America) , Democracy has become ‘ Demonocracy) – rule of Demons.

    They will ban free speech , ban freedoms , and they are right to think so – we are after all ‘slaves’ of money and the system for survival. While they loot and destroy , and Defame Concepts like ‘Dharma’ , or ‘Hindu Rashtra’ , or ‘Yoga’ , we fthe brainless majority sheep along.

    I bet many indians won’t feel the difference – We don’t even know our own culture.

  16. Also Shekhar , It is very very very Funny for me to see your concern for ‘ Freedom of Expression ‘


    You’ve been a Little Fascist on your own Blog many times. You blocked my posts many times , and of others , for whatever reason.

    So Freedom of expression and Brouhaha comming from you is a bit Rich , mate .

    but good to see your concern 😉

  17. Rudra,

    My friend, Freedom of Expression is multi-dimensional, and almost every blog owner like to have as many readers and posts as they can have. If certain post are not qualified then possibly there is something wrong in post. After all, Bloggers too have freedom to control content of their blogs.

    Often, bloggers don’t have time to read extremely lengthy posts in order to verify that the post meets glog’s standards. Sometimes there may be difference of opinion about the quality of blog between blogger and post-writer, or sometimes bloggers find the post irrelevant to the blog. Bloggers have more rights on such cases because they are responsible for content of their blog. So some posts are not allowed, I have to do it in my blog too.

    A good example of freedom of expression is media. They will allow to speak you, but they may choose to ignore you based on their own assessments on how interesting your story will be to their audience, or how well it fit with the current events. Media also have rights to disqualify certain advertisements even when ad-owners are paying for it, because media too have freedom.

    I hope you understand this.

  18. Mr. Chotiya,

    I am so sorry to dash your hopes, I could not understand ‘this’ at all.

    Please explain to me properly, as i cannot understand even simple things , so , when you say complicated things beyond my simpleton brain, i feel lost, my friend.

    What is ‘multi dimentional’ freedom of expression?
    What is the subject of this blog?
    Do you support Kapil Sibal’s plans to police the internet?
    Do you support phone hacking by the government or journalists?
    Did you support Tehelka or not when they did the Spy-Cam expose’s of politicians?
    Do you support Baba Ramdev’s right to expression or Chidambaram’s mid-night lathi charge of starving men women old ppl and kids at mid night?

    Hope you can enlighten, a country billage bumpkin like me.

  19. Rudra,

    My last name is Chovatiya, not Chotiya.

    Please be confident and proud to be yourself for being able to debate something that is important at national level. You are spending time to read blogs and debate on comments, which says that you are caring and intelligent, however, we may have strong disagreements over matters.

    Multi-dimensional freedom: Blogs that allows comments are kind of conversations. conversations have dimensions (Google “Dimensions of Conversation” to find more), you, me and blog owners are dimensions, and each of us have our own freedom. To your original post saying that your posts were not published on this blog, I insist that all blog owners have all rights to restrict the posts from being displayed on their blog by virtue of ownership of the blog.

    To make my point clearer, the government officials do not own the media or Internet, so they should not have rights to control contents of them. If any media content or allegations are untrue and damaging to officials reputations then there are laws to take actions against media. Putting ban on media is offence on freedom of expression.

    What is the subject of this blog?: Find it yourself.

    Do you support Kapil Sibal’s plans to police the internet?: Forget supporting it, I hate it.

    Do you support phone hacking by the government or journalists?: No, unless the hacking is of spy agency of our enemy countries and hacking is done on enemy’s land.

    Remaining questions: They are too specific to incidence, so I ignored them.

    A kind request: let’s discuss policies and matters enforced by governments rather than my personal choices on different things.

  20. Hi: many thanks for taking some time of producing up this data. I constantly try and even further my knowledge of stuff. If I concur or disagree, I like info. I take into account the previous days when the only source of data was the library or the newspaper. They equally appear so old fashion. : )

  21. A motivating discussion is worth comment. I believe that you need to write more on this issue, it might not be a taboo matter but usually people don’t speak about such issues. To the next! Kind regards!!

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