It’s when love turns to need. Its when love becomes more desire than nurture and caring. Its when love turns in into possesion and then into obsession. It’s when you say ‘you belong to me’. It’s the beginings of ownership. It’s the beginings of the end of love…
Do I stop loving you when you leave ? Do I stop loving you when you die ? If to leave someone you love is a deciet, then why is death not a deceit ? Just because the first has choice and the next does not ? Then we have to examine the questions of choice and og much deeper into what choices we do have,
Or get into ideas of Destiny and karmic influences that may rule who we meet, how we interact and what we do to each other.
Whether you believe that or not, can ownership ever be love ?
shekhar
Dear Shekhar
Possession and ownership attitudes are barriers we make, to prevent ourselves from opening up deeper. And so are the distances we create, that make others want to own us.
When we see these barriers in front of us, we can turn around and walk away. Or we can break through them to the other side and see what’s there. I’ve done both. Now that I have a fair idea of what’s on the other side, I prefer to risk the pain of breaking through. They don’t crumble when we break through them. They’re constructed of our fears.
Yes, death is different because we have no choice, unless we want to follow with our own deaths, immediately. Death removes present possibility. Leaving doesn’t. Death is an honest irrevocable end. Leaving never shuts doors completely. Death quiets love through its finality. Leaving is a wind that makes the fire of love grow stronger until its fuel is consumed, until the wind becomes so strong the fire is blown out — or until the fire outlasts the wind. Death can’t be reversed. Leaving can be.
Some leavings are a death. But many leavings are a deeply serious negotiation for space and freedom, or an expression of hurt, immaturity or fear.
So strange, one of the things Indian cinema has taught me is that the western way of breaking up is not the only way. The Indian way, as presented in film scenes, has given me insight in difficult situations, and proved to me the merits of the hope and patience it portrays. This at the same time India is moving away from that paradigm.
That’s what I feel, anyway.
love, Heath
Shekhar,
On this site you have a link called Notes to “MY” Daughter. Is that love or would you rather call it ownership?
ownership kills love!
Love is the only phenomenon in this universe which does not require BALANCE!
what is gravity? … there is NO GRAVITY! if it is not there then how come it is less on the Moon?… well…gravity is relative! it entirely depends on the mass and radius of the object. so mass and radius of the moon is less than earth, gravity acting on human bodies is 6 times less…
emotional reasoning we can give like- we are more attached to earth than the moon. because earth is our home. it has to offer many beautiful things which moon doesn’t have. on more subtle levels- we can be what we are only on earth. we can survive on earth!
So, actually more gravity is more bondage. we just cant leave earth.
same thing we do in love. we form bondage. and that kills the love.
the purer love becomes ( are there stages? different subject! lets consider for a while it is gradual), lesser is the bondage. lesser is the bondage, lighter we become…!!!
if gravity is about mass and radius of two bodies in question then what would be the gravity between human body and a tiny particle? very negligible! and then what about we and nothingness? physical body and nothingess? we cant imagine…simple…because suddenly one entity i.e. nothingness, can not be measured with senses!!!
but we can imagine for a while- nothingness, the word itself says that it has no mass and no radius. so if it doesn’t have mass and radius then there is no question of gravity!
and this is PURE LOVE. it demands nothing, it can only give.
why i am taking gravity as an example because it is equivalent to EGO! we can only describe EGO relatively like gravity!
and as the love turns into need and then to desire and to possession and obsession, only thing that is happening is EGO relative to that person is increasing!
LOVE disappears as soon as it becomes relative!
obsession kills LOVE!
take care…tata…kedar…
After reading your post Shekhar, I thought for sometime and the first question I got was…1) Do we ever have a choice? (of course it is our choice to choose whether we have or not)
2)Do we ever ‘let go’ as long as we love? May be I should get my words correct …”Long and Love” some how don’t fit in the sentence above!
Nav, with my daughter it cannot be ownership. How could it be ? It is love mnifested in many many forms. And the the post, ‘I bequeath you my wealth’is about letting it go. shekhar
But Shekhar, How can you let go of what you don’t own?
Why do you think both cannot go hand in hand. That I can continue to own and continue to let go?
I do not think ownership can ever be love. We are often possessive about people we love, but that is because of deep love and our concern that they should not come under any harm. I personally believe that true and lasting love flourishes in a state of detachment and freedom, and this is the kind of love that can last till eternity. I was in South Africa once and in a coffee shop a read this small quote “True love is when the bond is stronger than the bind”
I also believe that destiny drives us into meeting certain people (or have certain experiences) who are in the overall plan for our life. These are symbols or indicators from god and when we understand their significance, then only we go in the direction that was chosen for us. I think we always make choices in life and the better we understand the co-incidences in our lives, the better choices we’ll make, and the further we’ll go in fulfilling our god given destiny.
Regards,
Himanshu – New York
Love is what you can make someone feel, its in different forms. It can be nurturing or caring or any other expression. Love is giving space, it is freedom which again has a subjective definition. It is letting you be the way you are and not polishing according to one’s perception. Love is into believing and accepting other’s idea of love. Love is respect. When I say love is freedom, I also mean the freedom to explore which cannot come with ownership. Freedom to know yourself where I can act as a conduit but not an owner. As you said in your previous post, we search for ourselves in the other person and the process is continous by nature.
Once you are gone, My love would turn into affection for you. If you choose to go away with respect then I will love you forever for respecting your own choice of commitment and sticking by it. Shekhar, I feel, nothing in this world could be important than respecting one’s own choice. Thats love for me.
Nikita
Shekhar,
Sorry for drifting away from the topic of discussion but I did not know where else to post. I just wanted to know what do others and you think abt the movie ‘Parzania’? I watched it today and I was shaken to the core. It was an unforgettable experience for me. So, basically, wanted to know your view on this well crafted movie.
Nikita
causality of love is still an enigma to me . why do some bodies appeal to us more than others? why do some minds appeal to us than others, and why some hearts and what they do ? why , sometimes , are we almost forced to tend and care for the other person – as if we were meant to do it , as if we had no choice about it ? true disinterested love cannot be practiced in this age i suppose ?
Sheetal , about choices what do you think of my earlier post on this topic – i think on open thread ?
hey Another view can be… this is to justify the non monogamous nature of humans..
Infidelity is single most cause of this “leave love” verb you speak of..
If you truly love someone example myself, my eyes..I doubt it if I can let my eyes leave me..
When you feel true love..It comes with a price…price of obsession , price of magnetism , price of no individual space..
NO ONE said Love was easy….Its when two become one…
and once you are one..possesion obsession all is OK..
Dear Shekhar,
As you wrote a couple of posts back this movie which started it’s campaign on Youtube is creating great buzz – it’s creators are already on Oprah on Feb 8(that’s big). Please look at it if you’d like to see the summary on Youtube.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=L5yeHR3RUKo
The Secret – (It’s about the secret of how to attract almost anything you want into your life). I am not doing marketing for them – just facinated!
Shekhar – I think your hypothesis is coming true. It’s also available on internet viewing for $5.
You have often used the word infotainment in your interviews – Do you think this is it or is it something to come some years down the line? Please do try to answer if you have time.
Thank You,
Himanshu – NYC
Elizabeth Barett Browning (Love Sonnet VI)
Go from me. Yet I feel that I shall stand
Henceforward in thy shadow. Nevermore
Alone upon the threshold of my door
Of individual life, I shall command
The uses of my soul, nor lift my hand
Serenely in the sunshine as before,
Without the sense of that which I forbore–
Thy touch upon the palm. The widest land
Doom takes to part us, leaves thy heart in mine
With pulses that beat double. What I do
And what I dream include thee, as the wine
Must taste of its own grapes. And when I sue
God for myself, He hears that name of thine,
And sees within my eyes the tears of two
Hi Shekhar,
It was a write up on Suchitra in Delhi Times that caught my attention today morning and though i am not into bloging and wasting my time on celebrity frivia(frivolous +trivial), what captivates me is the fact that she says that u still stay in the same house and she loves u n ur divorced. Somehow part 3(the divorce bit) is beyond my comprehension. May be I am writing this coz am in love with a divorced man when i am 28 n he is 36 and is my boss’s Boss(More Chaos coz i work for a huge corporate). If this is more than personal i apologize for the brash behaviour.
Coming to why I chose this article is a similie i would like to put forward-:
It’s-said
“With Authority comes Responsibility” -in personal relationships too that happens(n thank god for it) i would interpret it as “Our Friends and the ones we love GIVE us a RIGHT to Love, Create, Nurture and Be in that realtion” I mean i/they are not going to put all of my/their energies for a strretsider and somebody who holds no value.
AND IT IS THIS RIGHT THAT GIVES AN ILLUSION OF OWNERSHIP TO THE OTHER; when in effect its the responsibility that they seek coz of the right they have given.
when did you ever hold me
To let me go?
When did you ever make me
To break me like this?
And when did your thoughts
Ever merge silently into mine
That this distancing
Now leaves my thoughts fractured and immobile?
I think this is a fraction of what god must have felt like
When he split himself from himself
to beget you and me from him
Only he knows the pains unreal
I dont
Love(like GOD)…is relative and beyond definitions.
I think, best is not trying to understand instead experiencing it…
/Yuva
Hi Shekhar:
The term “Love” used in everyday language is relational or worldly attachment to people, things, desires, convictions etc. Relational or relative love is an attractive force of the ego just like gravity is an attarctive (or attachment) of a mass. such love is afflicted with rime, birth/death, and evolution and hence temporal.
The absolute “Love” is that has no conditions, attachments, desires, convictions, or material gains. True love is free willed existence wherein the ego has dissolved entirely so that nothing is left for attachment or pull/push. This is the absolute Love of Buddha, Krishna, and Guru Nanak. Rest is all worldy attachments disguised as love just like religion is misunderstood as spirituality, and knowledge is misunderstood as wisdom etc. the true love is eternal beyond space and time, birth/death, evolution, etc.
Love & Regards,
Avtar Singh
avsingh@alum.mit.edu
possesion, obsession and ownership in love:
these are due to relative perceptions, imho. If one is not as “possesive”/”obsessive”/”owns one” compared to the other in the relationship that is when the problem comes. If both people in a relationship are equally balanced in these, then will there be an issue. I dont think so as they are on the same plane each of them loves the other just like they expect to be loved.
Choice:
Our life is shaped by the choices we make. In death, maybe we just dont realize yet what choices we do/dont have. Maybe it is based on the choices we make when we are alive…
The attempt to rationalise any emotion is a dangerous and moreover futile enterprise. Feelings are a unique, intangible thing and love more so than any other. There are no rules or magic formulae. Your definition of love might preclude possession and obsession whereas I might see them as prerequisites. Everything about love is annoyingly yet deliciously relative. The only objective reality/ certainty is that it isn’t meant to last. And it is only when we embrace the transience of it, that we can ever hope to really taste its pleasures.
If I don’t own anything, how can I disown anything.
How do you prevent a drop of water from drying up? … http://www.nilkanth.com/archives/2006/10/13/what-do-i-own/
It can never be love….
Ownership can never be love.. but not to own … does it mean being submissive to everything that happens? I beleive that I cannot raise a question towards the one i love… Is that the correct way to be silent and let it all flow the way it is flowing but then its like standing in the opposite direction of where the river’s strong current is flowing… love can never be ownership … but does it mean being submissive?
Do we or not have the right to ask for somethign that we love?
Love Love Me Do…You Know That I Love You…So Ple e ee e e easeeeee….. Love me dooo….!!!
forget all that Jazz, just love dont THINK please…it destroys everything…forget about everything…there’s nothing like LOVE and OWNERSHIP…just BE THE MOMENT … LIVE THE MOMENT…!!!rest all is nonsense…!!!
love is ownership when own ur loved one like you own your own body..
Love can be called ownership when you make your loved one feel that he she is yours and is important… and makes a difference.. when you give it you can expect it.
diluted……sublime……
but still left intoxicated…..
concentrated…..stuffed…….an’ a jam packed itinerary
as i try every time to live my life in a matter of hours…
seconds growing into minutes…which multiply themselves n’ turn into hours..
all you can give me are these moments…i don’t ever ask for more..
the touch… the caress…and our* look….
these are just fractions of time….maybe even figments of my imagination..
.
it’s about coming a full circle…but carrying on nonetheless
it starts with a nudge …deep within…an’ a longing…
the concentric circles…of my needs…your wants an’ our desire.
it’s all the dynamics of economics
the want to belong…..the need to possess n’ the desire to remain..
these roads have seen us through… they even recognises me now…
they’ve seen my life fold n’ unfold….more than a few times.
i hear a silent welcome as i touchdown…n’ the labyrinth bids me farewell everytime i leave…
it’s borne witness to my story…and to your’s…..
our senseless journey…
from the initial awkwardness to the tear drenched goodbye…an’ all that comes in between.
from the tenderness to all the bitterness that’s flown from me to you…n’ vice-versa…
from love n’ lust …an all the human emotions that exist..
from nothingness to both of us growing an’ coming into our own.
my tears have mingled with it’s dust…
an’ our laughter …unbottoned and carefree has stuttered in it’s humid wind.
i’v decorate my life with miniscule memories….n’ time spans which wldn’t amount to much…
we’ve spent evenings dissolved in laughter…
n’ carefully traversed nights traced with white stuff they call love
we fight over matters that matter to noone else.
divulge secrets…an’ live a dream through our diverse reality
something intense
an’ i give in..time an’ again….
as you linger in me..just yet..
i etch my memories into you….kiss your eyelids to seal the dream.
the dream..the hour…. my temporary life….
an unfinished relationship….
my childhood..an’ my other self.
the better part of my being…
an a juxtaposed existence…..
not so much my opposite….but a place that’s been my oasis for sometime now
half baked an’ all of my truth…
it’s like summer rain…
n’ it lingers on me ..
pulsating n’ warm …..warm with the heat of touched skin.
for right now….only bridges connect us
to something…anything…an to everything…
oblivion accompanies heady joy..
velocity brings along a heady mix…liquid cocain i’d like it referred as…
the headiness…..the warmth …the assurance….. the belief….
all of which comes along with possession..and a single meaningful touch.
….
there’ll soon be a dead end and vertigo will carry me back..
but till then…i stuff…consolidate….build..
n’ live my life….in a matter of hours….
it’s these hours of being..of living ..an’ loving…which set everything alright.
with you it’s not even half a blood tie…. but….
and when it’s time to upturn the hourglass i feel salt water edging my eyes…
we look in different direction….
contemplating…wondering….hoping…and eventually giving in..
you’d never agree but you taste it too…
once again i memorise the contours of your face for future reference..coz i never know which departure would bring along our final goodbye.
i try an’ hold on for as long as i can….
i kiss the scar between your eyes an’ get ready to fly…..
my movements are all but animated…an’ i perform a mechanical drill…the only thing i smell is your familiar smell….
ketaki, that is beautiful and from the soul.Thank you. shekhar
i dont wanna believe that love is ownership .. but i think mr. shekhar it is … esply when u talk about love of parents for their children.. why do most of them bring up children beliving and expecting their children to fulfill all their expectations? even if the exectation is there… why should there be any sort of pressure?
sach , didnt’ khali ghibran say something like “your are the bow and the arrows your children, you merely prope them into life, and from there on they follow their own destinies and paths,
problem is, even with parents, they see children in their own images, and a lot of that has to do with the illusion of control.. shekhar
I have successfully let go and still continued loving a person. But then I love most people, maybe I am not a good example. I totally agree with you that ownership and love are not the same.
I have never loved anyone I felt responsible for or desired something back in return. The people I love – it’s truly unconditional. And I have encountered unconditional love in return, from people much bigger than I am, much greater than I can ever be. This is what defines humanity – the ability to love a person unconditionally, forever. You don’t need to be in a ‘relatioship’ – relationships are transient. Love is not transient. If it is, then it is not love – maybe it was lust or infatuation or ownership, or an obsession.. Something where you don’t demand anything from the other person, and you are perfectly willing to let go as you beautifully described in another post. I wonder how many people really understood that.
What is love? When we claim that it’s love that we have for someone, are we correct? Something to ponder upon….. Are your palms sweaty, is your heart racing and is your voice caught within your chest? It isn’t love, it’s like. You can’t keep your eyes or hands off of them, am I right? It isn’t love, it’s lust. Are you proud, and eager to show them off? It isn’t love, it’s luck. Do you want them because you know they’re there? It isn’t love, it’s loneliness. Are you there because it’s what everyone wants? It isn’t love, it’s loyalty. Are you there because they kissed you, or held your hand? It isn’t love, it’s low confidence. Do you stay for their confessions of love, because you don’t want to hurt them? It isn’t love, it’s pity. Do you belong to them because their sight makes your heart skip a beat? It isn’t love, it’s infatuation. Do you pardon their faults because you care about them? It isn’t love, it’s friendship. Do you tell them every day they are the only one you think of? It isn’t love, it’s a lie. Are you willing to give all of your favourite things for their sake? It isn’t love, it’s charity. Does your heart ache and break when they’re sad? Then it’s love. Do you cry for their pain, even when they’re strong? Then it’s love. Do their eyes see your true heart, and touch your soul so deeply it hurts? Then it’s love. Do you stay because a blinding, incomprehensible mix of pain and relation pulls you close and holds you there? Then it’s love. Do you accept their faults because they’re a part of who they are? Then it’s love. Are you attracted to others, but stay with them faithfully without regret? Then it’s love. Would you allow them to leave you, not because they want to but because they have to? Then its love. Would you give them your heart, your life, your death? Then it’s love. Now, if love is painful, and tortures us so, why do we love? Why is it all we search for in life? This pain, this agony? Why is it all we long for? This torture, this powerful death of self? Why? The answer is so simple cause it’s…LOVE. It is such an addiction that even people who are not having it wish to experience and share it with someone
Where there are expectations, there should be compromises”
i am having a hard time letting go of an ex who has a kid and a wife, please help me, i still want him but morality gets in.
Adityara, “I would love you even if you die, but not if you left me in your life time” isn’t that what what u are saying ? Don’t you see that love is being overpowered by ownership here ? Shekhar
No shekhar….I meant…”I will love u even if u die…i ll love u even if u leave me…i ll love u even if u r not mine…” But it will hurt me if u r not mine or not with me (though I will still love)…Coz If it doesnt hurt then I dont love….the feeling of ownership is still there even without actual ownership otherwise why was i hurt…
U have to get hurt to love. Its just like a child and mother relationship. How can u say I will experience love and at the same time I can stay away from the pain. Love is pain. Love is possessiveness. Love is oneness or ownership. U r mine and I am urs. There is no shying away from the pain if u want to experience love. Dont u agree???
oh sorry…didnt get ur point earlier…No no, I didnt mean that…U meant deceit r8?..i.e, if somebody left u in the lifetime…if u love, u love. Doesnt matter if he/she cheated on u or was a bad person. Love is beyond judgment. I was talking bout ownership vs love. Actually i think in hindi and write in english. Language problem. sorry.
“It’s when love turns to need” you say….but love IS a need – to give and to receive in somewhat unequal measure sometimes. There is a passage in the Bible that goes:
“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always preserves.”
This is love in its purest form…divine love if I may. However close to the image or in the image of divinity I may have been created, I am not divine and can therefore, aspire only to perfect “humaness”
So, if love is a need borne of this state of perfect imperfection, where does that leave the notion of ownership with regard to it??
Quite honestly, when you’re invested in a relationship or another person the phrase “you belong to me” seems quite palpable, romantic, protective, loving even. The same phrase seems threatning to the ideals of pure love when we don’t feel as deeply as our partner. So long as ownership does not imply a compromise of any individuals fundamental socio-economic, emotional, physical, cultural, spiritual or political rights, I take the word to signify a sense of responsibility.
Everything is relative to and in perspective of how we feel at a particular point in time. you don’t stop loving someone when they leave, you stop loving them when you leave—emotionally, slowly and painfully! Its the mental weaning that takes place at a subconscious level that seems decitful to the person who is expecting you to make good on the unspoken promises underlying the words (no matter who has said them) “you belong to me.” And the promise they assume you’re making (to or with them) is that the way you feel when those four magical words are first said will never change!
I recemtly read “Many lives, many masters.” I found myself thinking about significant relationships in my life……..why am I attracted to a certain type? Why do I have the relationship that I do with my family…as an individual who is petrified in the face of mortality, the possibility of seeing loved ones and on sharing equally wonderful relationships with them as I have in this lifetime, is heartning. They are my destiny…by choice…if I have one:) I choose them because I love them, my love for them feeds my need and in needing them I lose all choice in the matter…
And so I’ve come full circle!!
Hello Shekhar,
It’s when love turns to need. Its when love becomes more desire than nurture and caring. Its when love turns in into possesion and then into obsession. It’s when you say ‘you belong to me’. It’s the beginings of ownership. It’s the beginings of the end of love…
How many do truely understand this, and what say to those who think love is matter of convenience does love not seek nurture if not possession!
Sense of belonging is a natural feeling how else wud u express it?
Smile
Can love be unconditional?
I don’t know, I can’t say,
as mine is not and it never was.
I love my mom with a condition
that she should love me most.
I loved my friends with a condition
that I should matter to them most.
In all these relationships, with all my conditions
I only gathered baggage of failed expectations.
Still when I fell in love I put a condition of unconditional love!
Am I being fair?
I don’t know, I can’t say.
Dear Mr. Shakhar Kapur,
I remember meeting you in London last year. It was really amazing since I have been a big fan since I was 7 ( when I watched Masoom).
I was reading your post on ‘Love’ today and it’s very interesting. Love I suppose is very individual and to each his own.
I have always been intrigued when we say ‘love is blind’ or ‘unrequited love’….if time permits, do let me know your views on these.
I agree, love is not ownership. But sometimes people also let go of someone for their own selfish dreams and goals. I wanted to also know, how would you describe someone who does that?
hello Shekhar sir,
I saw your interview in cnn .. a few days back and i wanted to check out your site since u had mentioned about it there… i m a student of visual arts, and i possess an undying urge to make visuals.
At this junction of my creative endeavour i face a problem where i seem to feel nonchalant about most of my feelings … not because i dont feel it … or understand it.. but i think its makes one’s life more and more murkier by understanding and reacting to these emotions which are so subtle and real.. Dont u feel we are trying too hard to apprehend emotions which are better if left on its FLOW…. I would like to know how u tackle these emotions when u reach a stage where your human understanding is soo strong?
Does nt it hinder u from annalysing and reacting towards life and human relationships?
cool Regards,
Sohini
Love can be unconditional too. Love is when you see the other person happy. When it’s soul love, you only want the best for the person you love. I truly believe ownership is not love. Letting go is also love, it competely takes different form of love, beyond this universe.
Hi Shekhar,
Sometime we are so involve in our search that we forget what we are searching for. the search for love and the search for a person who understand love to the extent of selfabandon has drove me to a directionless life. I could not have imagined of a man who could feel love like love, not as a need, not as a condition, not as a pride, not as a owner unless i saw your blog. U have decoded my undecifered feelings about love. Thanks to give a new meaning to love.
Dear shekhar,
‘It’s when love turns to need. Its when love becomes more desire than nurture and caring. Its when love turns in into possesion and then into obsession. It’s when you say ‘you belong to me’. It’s the beginings of ownership. It’s the beginings of the end of love’
I agree totally with the rest… except on need….
for me love is a need, at least in my case.
But it gets tough when u try to possess ur loved one. It becomes suffocating and one just feels like rinnung away.
Its just obsession and possessiveness then on, and not LOVE anymore i feel. Love can just flow, It can not tie people, it can not torture souls.
Love can get two people closer by choice, with all the willingness, But what makes it bitter is the obligation of staying together, Obligation of behaving the way ur partner loves you to behave, obligation of pretending to please/or effort please one another… the pressure(when its imposed on us and not free willing) of committment if i could say… loving is pleasure, it can not be forced.
well said about parental love,
“your are the bow and the arrows your children, you merely prope them into life, and from there on they follow their own destinies and paths,
problem is, even with parents, they see children in their own images, and a lot of that has to do with the illusion of control.
But still isn’t love any need? Need is something essential for survival right? and so is love… is it not a need then also?? What is it then??
wish you love and peace
can we ever love our beloved more than we love ourselves……individuality vs co existence ? goals vs senstivity…..me vs us ? please answer shekhar…
can we ever love our beloved more than we love ourselves……individuality vs co existence ? goals vs senstivity…..me vs us ? please answer shekhar…
Loved her
More than I loved myself
Walked in to the fire
Jumped off the cliff
with a smile
Now I stand
half mutilated
half ash
I received so much
I lost
the will to love
the will to live
the will.
Dead man walking.
I didn’t understand the concluding part of your article, could you please explain it more?