Is there life after death, is there a soul ?

shekhar

Of course there is no life after death. It is the wrong question. The real question is ‘ is there life before death?


And if there is, what is the nature of it ? Is there ‘consciousness’ that exists outside the complex functions of the brain, and if so why is birth a begining and death the end. Is life then not just a transient phase of consciousness with no begining and no full stop ? How could you die if you did not really exist ?
The battle rages. The scientists (see the latest Time magazine) argue that all of consciousness exists in the brain, and once we understand all the functions of the brain, we will see that there is no existence beyond the interactions between the trillions of neurotransmitters of the brain. remember that the scientists always say ‘once we have understood it all, we will discover that …’.
So the scientists say that we do exist. In the form of thought processes thrown out by neurotransmitters.The scientists agree that we have no physical form. For all matter is just a series of waves or energy particles. So what they (the scientists) are saying is that our reality lies in the thought processes generated by nerotransmitters that reside in our brain. Thats all we are. Thought processes.
The ‘consciousness’ philosophers (and some very eminent scientists) are saying that there is consciousness beyond thought processes. Which you will discover only when you go beyond thought. That thought creates it’s own reality, which really is an illusion, and they call it the Ego.
Problem is that science is based on two distinct entities. The object of observation and the observer. And even science (the Quantum Physicists) are proving that the act of observation distinctly influences the observed. So a particle will not exist in any point of time and space unless it is observed. It is almost as if the observation creates the particle, that was a mere fluid possibility till there is an observer and an act of observation.
And Scientists do not question the existence of the observer. Who created the observer that created the particle in space/time through the act of his/her observation except thought ? In a converse way it could be said that the ‘event’ of observation of the particle co created both the Observer and the observed ! So God (so to speak) in this case was the Event that co created both in that space/time.
But if we human beings are the ‘observers’, then atleast within our lifetimes, we (the scientists) see ourselves as continously existing in linear time/space. Till we die. At which time all time space of our existence simply dissapears. So there are fundamental laws of nature that we are experimenting with, that the scientists claim, are the truth against which we can measure and observe our own existence. And those of the fundamental laws that which we cannot explain we say will be explained by science one day.
But the philosophies of Consciousness’ believe that both the observer and the observed co create each other. That neither actually exist except as consciousness. And the duality or the seperation is cretaed through imagination. Of one or the other.
Now to the idea of the Soul. If we are pure consciousness, and have no induvidual existence except in our own illusions, then why do we say that our individualities exist after death in the form of an Individualistic soul ? And if there is no soul, then how do you explain the very scientifically documented instances of re-incarnation ?
I believe that the soul is not individual, but a collective universal consciousness. Documented instances of reincarnation are merely the tapping into the memories of the vast collective consciousness and edited into the ideas of of a singular lifetime. Once again the act of observation creating the illusion of one particular reincarnation,
shekhar

50 thoughts on “Is there life after death, is there a soul ?”

  1. Hi Shekhar,
    I tried writing quite a few comments on this…but then there is one thing i say here- I Agree!
    But why does the “collective UNIVERSAL consciousness” create Imagination or an Illusion! For its own survival – like say in the “Matrix!” Or is “Consciousness” is observing itself all the time…that makes its inner parts (say humans) work against and with one another for something ‘more’ …’may be this thought process is something for myself’…like a “sravanthi” (something that flows all the time)

  2. Dear Shekhar,
    My take on this is that consciousness is pure enrgy that surrounds us all in the ether. Like Nepolean Hill says that our brains are both tranmitters and receivers and it is upto us to make the best use of these faculties. The thoughts (enrgy in the ether) of each person who ever lived are still in the ether and we can tap into that and have a conversation with anyone.
    That I think that is the soul of the world and it never dies. I often see programs on a specal web channel beyondtoday.tv which talks about life after death and heaven – they say that we do physically end but the spirit lives on for eternity. I will also like you to check out these 10-20 min videos as I found them really helpful and comforting – It was just my need to get these answers that took me there.
    Thanks,
    Himanshu

  3. Years ago, I was fascinated watching V.S Ramachandrans ‘Nova’ documentary on cerebral secrets. It was amazing as science was able to map phantoms in the human brain…
    And, the current issue of TIME does bring up many interesting facts and with them questions..
    Consciousness ‘maybe’ based on episodic memory and involves integrating information and inputs using inferences which are used in planning and reflection.Since each one tends to focus on details in different ways, attention is a pre-requisite of consciousness.
    Have you ever wondered about brain interactions or the energy radiated? Why we get along well with someone etc etc?
    “We are what our thoughts have made us; so take care about what you think. Words are secondary. Thoughts live; they travel far” – Swami Vivekananda

  4. we see only what we want to see, what we are ready to see
    we hear only what we want to hear, what we are ready to hear
    we feel only what we want to feel, what we are ready to feel
    and so on…
    cheers !

  5. Great post Shekhar. You have put so many ideas so well and so succintly.
    I am reminded of a saying I read somewhere: Those who know cannot tell, those who tell cannot know.
    I wonder how many people there are out there who never need to know or tell and who just are. We could never know them or their minds.

  6. dude…
    it is very simple to understand…
    an addict dies…his senses are no more there to help him smoke a joint…result- HELL…
    observe keenly- BOREDOM is the soul reason for the development of any science.
    one is bored- oh you are poor – fight, quarrel, talk. oh you have money- switch on the TV, watch a film , have sex, drink beer…oh you are bit evolved- read books , have philosophical discussion, form communities, form NGOs,
    oh…you have more money- go to spa, take massage, do meditation courses, listen and see GURU speaking on DVDs, have sex with super model, join secret sects, take active part in deciding fates of millions of people…and the story goes on…
    one has to understand that what we are is NOT MIND!

  7. We are nothing but a very complex organic/bio-chemical reaction that is able to sustain itself for a fairly long period of time. Given the right catalysts in the form of education , environment, family, food, music etc etc we achieve a state of existence and consciousness that helps us connect with other such 70-80 year long bio-chemical reactions going on on the planet. There are time and space boundaries that keep us apart and put us in a different state of consciousness but the fact of the matter is that when this so very beautiful organic reaction of sperm and egg sparks life , it gives birth (loss of thoughts…).
    Sometimes I get stung by monotony in life but then when I stare at the sun moon and stars it seems like nature in itself is defining the rules of monotony. Nature is monotonous The chemical reactions that we are prone to imperfections. If there is any god, I think it is the Sun, so bright and perfect and such a source of energy that nobody can stare at it or be like it or create another one like it, look at how the day is gloomy when there is no Sun- to me that is the only God that defines all our state of consciousness. There are perfect processes in the universe and in eternity that have been going on for billions of years and will continue to go that sustain life. they are slow , perfect ,ridiculously monotonous but life sustaining. Our state of consciousness has defects and imperfections and only when can achieve a state being that makes us feel as a small drop of this magnanimous god, Sun ,or makes us resonate with it, will we achieve a happy state. I think when we die we just become one with Sun, another biochemical reaction starts that brings us in resonance with God(sun) in a different state of being….
    I am off track but wanted to throw some spaghetti on the wall hoping something sticks..
    Adam – New Delhi

  8. Rudra, for some strange reason your comment brought a smile on my face at the time when only owls give me company besides damm economic theories! As you said, only if they could have something better than invent complications!! 🙁 🙁
    Lol… thanks anyway 🙂

  9. Rudra,
    I am not educated enough to comment on your question about anti-matter. Whatever little I know would hardly contribute to a philosophical discussion about life or consciousness so I would not even attempt to go there. Leave it up to you to shed some light…
    However, to your comment about the giant breeding complex, I see it in a bigger picture. I still think it is very true and the bigger picture I think here is the need and urge to produce something. Our state of consciousness and awareness of our existence is very tightly knit to our ability to produce something. I see it as a symbiotic relationship here. The more we produce the more it feeds our awareness of our consciousness, which in turn feeds our ability to produce more. So reproducing would just be a subset of this highest order of need to produce. In that sense we are still just biochemical reactions triggered by our predecessors and when the time arrives we do the same.
    The more we produce the more aware we are of our existence and a higher level of consciousness we achieve. I do not think there is a soul or any kind of reincarnation. We just have invisible energy threads attached to our god- Sun- and from the point of conception to the point of death we just use this thread of energy to produce more and more of whatever we want to produce and when we lose this ability to produce more we die. So, yes I think we are just a biochemical reaction capable of reproducing.

  10. 🙂 Rudra… yes i reduced it to that level and i am glad you took it the way i meant it.
    some fanatic scientist might kill me if he reads this…he would say what about Instinct? what about logic? what about emotions? what about FEAR of unknown? what about noble cause of helping humanity?
    and then if i will say is that noble cause is actually NOBEL PRIZE?, then he would surely kill me!!! hehehehe….Intellectuals fart all the time in their MINDS!!! (another theory….hehehe)

  11. Quoting Shekhar: “So a particle will not exist in any point of time and space unless it is observed. It is almost as if the observation creates the particle, that was a mere fluid possibility till there is an observer and an act of observation.” Unquote
    I disagree with the above statement. I think you are basing the above conclusion on the results of the famous Schrdinger’s cat experiment, which you had mentioned here earlier also in some previous blog of yours.
    Here’s Schrdinger’s (theoretical) experiment: “We place a living cat into a steel chamber, along with a device containing a vial of hydrocyanic acid. There is, in the chamber, a very small amount of a radioactive substance. If even a single atom of the substance decays during the test period, a relay mechanism will trip a hammer, which will, in turn, break the vial and kill the cat. The observer cannot know whether or not an atom of the substance has decayed, and consequently, cannot know whether the vial has been broken, the hydrocyanic acid released, and the cat killed. Since we cannot know, the cat is both dead and alive according to quantum law, in a superposition of states. It is only when we break open the box and learn the condition of the cat that the superposition is lost, and the cat becomes one or the other (dead or alive). This situation is sometimes called quantum indeterminacy or the observer’s paradox: the observation or measurement itself affects an outcome, so that it can never be known what the outcome would have been if it were not observed.”
    My contention is that the cat does not die when it is observed. It may have been dead a long time before it was observed by an observer. With the use of forensic science it is possible to know the approximate time when death of a living being took place. This proves, to me atleast, that an event does not take place when it is observed. And hence, is not dependent on the observer.
    Cheers!
    Navin

  12. I agree to one aspect of your thought Kedar, about someone not being bored. Then that non-bored person would be fully occupied doing what he/she thinks is “right”(relatively speaking). He/She would be a Karma yogi, if he/she is open to learning from mistakes and refine their self.
    But the opposite that science is a result of boredom is, imho, is wrong. Remember that there could be a set of people whose non-boredom is thinking/working in science, contemplating on life, death etc. They are Karma yogi’s too…

  13. Adam’s post reminds us of the connection to the sun – it is refreshing.
    it is amazing how with all the philosophies , we forget the basic truth – that there is no life , no philosophy , so science or religion possible here , we owe our complete existance to the sun , which is why everyone ( i mean everyone ) in the ancient societies – all over the world – used to worship the ‘sun god’ . In India we have the Sandhya worhip – oblation to Sun twice a day at dawn and dusk as a thanksgiving .
    what is however troubling is that, the significance , meaning , understanding and hence the effect of such connections to natural forces has been lost to us , what exists today is just heartless ritual – most of our profound inheritences in the Indian civilisation have been reduced to just a ‘ritual’ not helped by the fact that ‘science’ cannot explain or prove ‘prayers’ work – we slide to death inevitably anyway in time .
    but do you really think that we expand and find purpose only in re-production ? maybe you mean , creative process is essential for expansion of consciousness ?

  14. Shekhar , what you wrote is quite profound – you touched a few deep things there . They throw up a lot of questions in relation to what some philosophies say. as you say , ‘events’ in themselves could be ‘god’. Our whole vocab turns on its head – and this thesis of observed and observed , of events and consciousness makes us , nay , forces us to re-define the words we use toc communicate such concepts.
    lets settle with English for the moment -words in sanskrit/saraswati are sounds which inspire meaning – ie , there is no difference between the sound , the body , the word and the meanig – thats an example of the integration of the subject , event and the object – which is what you were trying to arrive at – or pose as a question in your post – if i am correct?
    some questions for you Shekhar : why do you trust the ‘Time’ , and what it reports so implicitly ? – or even the ‘scientists’ and what they say about consciousness ? which kind of ‘scientists’ do you believe more than the other ? why and how did you conclude that ‘of course’ there is no life after death , but only before it? – just curious.
    I want to draw you attention to a major thing we tend to overlook – consciousness as limited to the brain is an old theory . Brain , has very limited role to play in the body – apart from co-ordinating the CNS. The human body has very localised intelligence structure – for exmaple , the abdomina tissues know which enzymes to emply for which kinds of foods , quite without the knowledge of the brain – the heart beats calmly when we deep sleep. the muscles of the heart are locally controlled at that time – it has been scientifically proven that the Body is a collection of localised intelligence , which is non-replicable and the brain itself has a minimal role to play.
    So this whole thesis of consciosness limited to the neuro-transmitters in the brain doesnt hold good ground any more. how does that effect your argument on consciousness ?
    did you read the Yoga sutra on this topic ? i will quote some interesting findings when you reply ..

  15. Rc, the reason of reducing science to that level was simple again.
    Need made man invent! He lost the track when need was replaced by desire! and once the desire took over the need, the evolution of body stopped and evolution of MIND started. and now the science has reached a point where there cant be a vertical growth. Logic has come to a saturation point. and hence though science is coming up with theories of particles and sub particles and their intermediate stages one thing is for sure that its an horizontal growth. now only evolution of SOUL can happen! and since we are in early stages(collectively) of this process hence there is so much discussion about it.
    what nano-technology is offering is just a more sophisticated life style and not the answers. it cant. because as far as science is concerned only paradoxes have remained to be actualized. e.g. time travel, invisiblility, tele tranformation… these are all paradoxes and though these are science fiction concepts, these concepts deny the science at the core! Stephan Hawking has said ‘Big Bang is incomplete theory. one has to transcend MIND to understand the true nature of it.’
    what exactly he means by that? Einestine said ‘ reality is merely an illusion though very persistent one’ what did he mean by that?
    it only means that what ever is happening around you is the collective memory of the MATTER universe which is MIND. observer and observed – as Shekhar said.
    to understand it better i will give a beautiful example i once read – one is standing near a waterfall…he hears the sound of water falling down. cut to- the person is now in his bedroom far away from the water fall but he still recalls the sound. he thinks that there must be sound even now!
    NO…it is not there…water hit the ground, waves were created, they hit the ear drum and the person could hear the sound…SCARY…isnt it?…there is no sound!…we make it happen!…now imagine a traffic street! so many sounds, so many people, so many cars, so many hoardings…so many minds encapsulated in different bodies…so many thinking brains…we have become INSENSITIVE!… no wonder ACID ROCK is so popular…it makes us almost deaf and we just might here SILENCE and we feel its a spiritual experience. Hippies were not that BAD…they had their techniques…but one has to be utmost alert to become a true hippy!
    now collective mind has come to a stage where there is a clear goal ahead of it! and that GOAL is to find a true nature of our existence! but as i said we are going in horizontal direction…we are just spreading side ways and replacing old proven theories with new dimensions! we are DENYING what is OBVIOUS! and hence the term BOREDOM! we want to indulge more into activities of MIND…because it is colorful! it offers all the earthly pleasures! it offers COMFORT! so we say ‘ lets do it tomorrow’
    it is subtle but try to understand what i am trying to say!… the theories are now saying on the paper that THERE IS NO SOUND of the WATERFALL but we are afraid to accept that…we are afraid to SUBMIT! because total submission will kill the MIND!
    deep down its FEAR! on superficial level its BOREDOM!
    as you say ‘ there is a set of people for whom the non boredom is thinking, working in science, contemplating on life, death etc.’
    yes there is a set of these kind of people…if you have this kind of life style or if you dont have then observe who have it and you will find though they keep working and keep coming out with theories actually their whole action is SELF LESS!
    so they will REALIZE on their own the TRUTH! but their theories will never explain it!
    Van Gogh used to go to a painter called May for the guidance. Van asked May ‘ How do you work? …i mean how you plan your working style?
    May said ‘ well, i start working and then at a point i get bored. so i take a break and in the break i start working and my boredom goes away and i start working again!’ so one can see that who ever that painter was , he was more interested in painting…just pure painting and not what he was painting! yes..may be while painting he might be having certain attachment to that subject but over all he was attached to the form of art than any particular idea!
    if you will keenly observe you will find our life is like collection of compartments…work, home, friends, solitude…Why every where we are different? because we have some INTENTION all the time!
    Why boredom ? why that term ? because it is purely based on the analysis of todays life style we have! why so much TVchannels, why so many films? why so many amusement parks? why so much credit cards? why so many loan skims? why so many offers of attractive weekends? because MIND has become so brat that it wants NEW all the time and it gets BORED very soon!
    and i am not saying ‘DENY every thing and go in the woods! NO…just observe, understand and be AWARE!
    again i am saying ‘ what you are is not what your MIND tells you! ‘ and once one understands this then as Skhekar has said ‘the real question is Whether there is life before death? ‘, this life before death is the key to the answers! the very existence of ours is the answer!
    if we will keep DENYING facing our fears then MIND will be so strong as it already is and FEAR will be hidden deep down in unknown layers and BOREDOM will replace it and we will think we are progressing! because as i said – more work will definitely bring more money …more money will give more time and more time will make mind indulge into more activities and those will be thoughtfully chosen and hence very dangerous! the trap becomes more and more subtle with materialistic growth! is it bad? again…No…rather its good to have wealth…because it is very difficult to be KABEER! only ‘being aware’ is the solution!
    take care…tata…kedar…

  16. Dear Shekhar:
    You have raised deeply insightful and significant questions related to consciousness and life after or before death. In fact, I would like to extend you question a step further Is there life before birth?
    I hope that you had a chance to read the paper I sent you entitled A New Approach to Consciousness and Mind. The paper addresses the very issues you are raising via integrating the universal consciousness into the physics and cosmology models of the universe that resolve the paradoxes of the modern physics and cosmology including the famous Observers paradox of quantum mechanics that you have mentioned in your post.
    The results of the consciousness-integrated model in my paper vindicate your observation that universal consciousness is the most fundamental existence that is eternal and omnipresent (Einsteins fully dilated space and time at the speed of light enlightenment). There is no soul, but it commonly confused with the mind consisting of memories, thoughts, and emotions. A scientific acceptance of the reincarnation is possible if at least 50% (mean value) of the human beings can prove the knowledge of their past lives. Out of several billion people who have existed on earth, just a handful of random cases of potential reincarnation provide no justification for accepting the validity of reincarnation.
    Regarding the incompleteness and deficiencies of quantum mechanics to explain consciousness and free will, attached below is a note I sent to Dr. Deepak Chopra earlier:
    Quantum Mechanics vs Consciousness
    Dear Deepak:
    Since the consciousness is the central issue here in the science vs. God debate, and quantum mechanics is often referred to as a scientific basis for consciousness, I thought a new perspective on this topic would be of interest. There are following fundamental inconsistencies and flaws in using quantum mechanics arguments to support consciousness as presented in my book – The Hidden Factor: An Approach for Resolving Paradoxes of Science, Cosmology, and Universal Reality.
    1. The Heisenberg Uncertainty, which forms the basis of quantum mechanics, is commonly but mistakenly understood as the basis for consciousness or free will. This uncertainty is not inherent in nature but an artifact of the chosen measurement method by science that is applicable or accurate only for measurements in the classical or fixed space and time. The errors inherent in this method for measuring the behavior of common heavier particles such as atoms and molecules are small and hence have contributed to the known successes of quantum mechanics in everyday technological applications in the material world. However, the errors get amplified to almost infinite amounts when applied to the very small new and allusive fundamental particles proposed for high energy physics investigations, wherein the relativistic effects become extremely important. Because of these errors and inconsistencies, the physics of the very small remains allusive leading to the still unresolved paradoxes of quantum mechanics at the most fundamental level such as the Measurement or Observer Paradox and the quantum gravity. Since the phenomenon of consciousness operates at very small scales (below Plancks scale), quantum mechanics arguments are inappropriate for its description.
    2. Counter to the common knowledge and assumptions, uncertainty can never be the basis for the free will. A free will can exist only in conjunction with certainty and eternity of the natural laws of the universe. For example, one cannot walk up straight at own free will if there is no certain and unchanging law of gravity. A randomly varying and uncertain law of gravity would deny the free will to be able to walk up straight.
    A more consistent scientific basis of consciousness and free will is shown to be the spontaneous decay of the particles or masses via converting to the zero-point energy wherein the space-time dilates to zero representing the eternity and omnipresence. This new innovative approach to consciousness is also shown to resolve the current paradoxes of quantum mechanics, general relativity, and cosmology.
    Moreover, quantum mechanics relies upon the observations of a conscious observer without which there would be no quantum reality or quantum mechanics. However, there is no scientific description of the observer that brings quantum mechanics into reality or existence. The vicious circular logic that is often used by experts in science and other fields is that on one hand quantum mechanics is often used as a basis to explain consciousness, while quantum mechanics itself relies on the consciousness of the observer.
    Best Regards
    Avtar Singh
    avsingh@alum.mit.edu

  17. After a bit of thought it struck me – that there is Life before and after both death and birth . Here’s why :
    as surely as there is life in our bodies when they were one foot long and now when they are 6 feet long ( excuse me , those who are shorter ) – there is no surprise in noticing the continuity of life even as our bodies change enormously in one lifetime . does it mean our 5-year old bodies died ? of course they did – they changed , evolved -but in essense dead and gone. from the moment we are born , we begin to die .
    perhaps the slow , methodical , progressive flow into yet another death – is not noticed by our dulled minds – dulled not beecause we are not smart – even the smartest wont notice this – it is simply a question of being within the observer -reference frame. we simply dont notice how we die every second ! it is too slow for us to notice – just like we dont realise how quickly we reach the depths while walking down a ramp to a river bed – or how fast we move when we fly in an aeroplane – we are all doing 600-700 mph at 30,000 feet and yet we dont notice it .
    similarly , we dont notice that we die and are reborn every moment – and by common sense ( perhaps ) and by mathematical induction – a powerful tool used to prove a lot of hypotheses – it becomes clear ( unless some of us want to have faith in a no-afterlife religion ) , that there is life after the present condition of the body is no longer usable .
    What i also means by projecting the same mathematical induction theorm , is that there was life , that we lived before we were born in a better conditioned body – as for the memory – we carry the impressions rather than the entire sequence and faces we met in all the material lifetimes we have had so far – nothing surprising , since we forget the small events , old faces even in this lifetime ! that doesnt mean we never met them.
    so to summarise : there is continued Life before and after both death and birth .

  18. Hello everyone, I want to say what a fascinating time I have had reading all your arguments and I hope these arguments continue as this is one of the most important issues facing us.
    Even socially if we do find our centre and can relate it to a universal consciousness, then I believe that a lot of socially relavent and really important issues can be resolved too as being in synch with universal consciousness dispels desire.
    Lack of Desire though does not reflect lack of passion. Or the world would be very boring without passion. But pure passion is very different from passion engulfed with desire. One is the passion of the moment, that has no relationship with the past or the present therefore has no investment in the result of the passion.
    So the argument may arise ” if it is all about just pure passion, then you may run ito a moral problem. Like you just kill someone in pure passion and you take no responsibility for it”
    But you don’t kill someone in pure passion do you ? You kill someone because you want them dead. So the action is related to a desired result. But if result is taken out of the equation, then all that remains is what we call universal love, that is nothing but essetially a compassionate harmonious relationship with universal consciousness.
    I can go on. And love all these arguments. I have just come back from an amazing spiritual retreat and some realization. I will talk about it, but in the meantime will collate my thoughts and go on reading your blogs.
    and Rudra, if you are reading this, could you please send us the Yoga Sutr’a you mentioned ??
    shekhar

  19. Here is some more masala for your Paani script, Shekhar. Frontpage story in today’s Mumbai Mirror:
    WATER WARS : Inmates of Arthur Road jail have begun to fight over water as the 1.25 lakh litres supplied caters to 3000-odd inmates though it is meant for only 800.
    Cheers!
    Navin

  20. I think this is one of the more interesting posts in recent times. What happens when we die? I looked at some consolidated popular Christian beliefs, and thought I’ll post them here. There are 5 generally debated options. Even in the Hindu religion into which I was born would kind of agree with all except point 3.
    1. Heaven: Eternity is spent in Heaven or Paradise, which is beautiful beyond our ability to conceive.
    2. Hell: Eternity is spent in Hell with Satan and his demons. All are tormented and tortured, in isolation from God, without any hope of mercy or relief.
    3. Annihilation: The body rots. One’s soul, spirit, memory, personality, awareness, body, and mind disappear and are no more.
    4. Transmigration of the soul: Our soul and spirit are reborn into a human fetus or newborn child.
    5. Reincarnation: Our soul and spirit are reborn into another living entity – not necessarily human.
    I think there is a deep inner desire in all of us to have a continuation of the journey that we are undertaking right now – One main reason is that any intelligent person can logically figure out that the time allocated to us – even 100 yrs is a very small time on this planet. My personal take would be that there must be some good reason for this big experiment with over 6 billion specimens that is taking place on this planet – the only one, and there must be some continuity. There have been proofs of reincarnation and that is the only option of the above 5 that we can somehow scientifically prove. Also, if you knew that there is eternal life after this journey, would you know or be able to imagine what you’d like to do in that infinite time?
    I think the most important question is to understand the reason for the human experiment, and that will answer almost everything.
    Do tell me your thoughts as to why you think we are here – even before we figure out what to do while we are here? Shekhar or any of my new friends – What do you say?
    I didn’t sleep all night tonight – just finished watching ’21 Grams’ so I am kind of in the state to write this post. As I look out of my window at the Empire State, I keep wondering what is going on?
    Himanshu
    Manhattan, New York City

  21. Shekhar, let’s say we know the final truth. Will that still be an idea that can be debated? If it can be debated then it cannot be the final truth. If not, then this one has got to be either no idea or all ideas. No idea and all (infinte) ideas are indescribable states. (This is becaue an idea of no idea is still an idea and a state of all possible ideas is inconcievable.)
    So, we operate in a state of ‘many’ ideas, where everyone has myriad concepts, thoughts, experiences, which cumulatively I call ‘ideas’. The state of all or no idea is a state which gives birth to and is always pregnant with new ideas. We cannot access that state since we ourselves are an idea emanating from that state.

  22. Shekhar, very valid points on Pure Passion. Just to augment, when you are killing someone I guess you do it expecting that person to die, except when it is done by accident. Accident can be rage in which case the person in rage is under the control of an emotion so it is not pure passion again. The other accidental is purely accidental like a child handling a gun mis-fires and the parent dies etc. which is purely ‘fate’ for lack of better understanding.
    Kedar, very nice reply. I really liked the fact about the waterfall. I saw a similar presentation at microsofts website where a professor presented a topic where he was saying that our vision is actually a projector that projects the world in 3-d for us to perceive. It takes in the light, processes it and then projects it outwardly. Isn’t that fascinating !
    I have a reply to one of Shekhar’s previous posts where i wrote about my theory about the whole life. In simple terms we are all matter yearning to be united with our anti-matter, that we call God. God is the perfection that we are not !
    So all these theories and writings about nirvana is suposed to be confusing as it is the ultimate state that no human language can describe. THe writings are filled with paradoxes to a lay reader as we are still caught in the world and thoughts of paradoxes and relativity (that reminds me, my earlier reply was to a post related to relativity 🙂 ! Just my 0.02 paisa…
    Shekhar, thanks again for such a forum. THis is like the ‘Vaada’ forums that used to hapen in earlier times between the three schools of thoughts of our Philosophy… 🙂 Very beneficial indeeed !

  23. shekhar,
    your commentary on existence does not comment upon the greatest mystery of all: love.
    no scientist or philosopher can adequately explain it, but none can deny it.
    beyond the brain, beyond consciousness, is there anything beyond love?
    what if this dream of live is the dream of love?

  24. Post number 18 Rudra’s post- last para… i find it most important because of one word- IMPRESSIONS!!!
    what is an impression? how is it related to emotional memory? are our all actions based on Impressions?
    an old orthodox uncle of mine once told me ‘ An egg is a non veg food’ i said ‘ No…it isnt’
    he said ‘ what ever has been fertilized in a womb and has come out of Yoni ( vagina) is a non veg food! ‘
    i said ‘ eggs which people eat are not fertilized. there is no life in them’
    he said’ but there was potential and hence that Egg carries an impression of the mother and hence it is a non veg food’
    one week later i went to meet him and he said ‘next time eat consciously and you wont get those impressions!’
    he never ate out side any where. he used to cook his own food. ( he wasn’t into castism but his life style was pretty orthodox.)
    when i asked ‘WHy not out side food? ‘
    he again said the same thing that he didnt want to have the impressions of the cook on the food which he would eat. further he said ‘ and those impressions can be from endless chain of time created by mind’
    i said ‘ you mean past life of the cook?’
    he said ‘ past lives…its an endless chain’
    i asked him why so? why such an orthodox life style? he said he has chosen a path of Yoga and who ever walks on that path has to have clean and healthy body so that when he sits to meditate his body would support him.
    there are several interesting topics regarding this issue which go beyond castism and religion. and there is always a fantastic and beautiful logic behind it.
    but as far as the discussion is concerned the most relevant word is IMPRESSIONS!!!
    it is always fun to observe how Impressions created by our own mind make us weave a strange logic and make us act and how we create an endless chain of ACTIONS ( karma ) !!!

  25. Hi Shekhar:
    Desire vs. Passion
    Desire is of the ego, passion is of the free will.
    Desire creates distance (space) and time, passion dissolves space and time.
    Desire is living in the future extrapolating the past; passion is living in the moment.
    Desire separates from the wholesome consciousness; passion merges us into the whole.
    Desire creates fear, uncertainty, and evolving complexity, passion is simplicity and beauty.
    Desire is suffering, passion is joy.
    Desire demeans life, passion is meaning & purpose.
    Avtar Singh

  26. Hi Shekar,
    Thank you for such a deep discussion !!A few of my thoughts here.
    Looking at some our Vedic scriptures, especially the Bhagadvad Gita, there leaves little doubt on this question. There is surely life after death and there was life before birth.All of us have existed countless times,in countless forms through eternity. Thats what Lord Krishna says in the Gita. It is only that we do not rememeber (fortunately) any of our previous incarnations for our own good. Some who start recollecting
    ( how and why is totally unanswered) account for the scienitifically documented cases of reincarnation instances.
    We are reborn to learn and learn lessons till the soul becomes perfect and merges into the Supreme Energy. There are no punishments, there are only lessons.
    Why is one born poor,another rich?.One person is sick from childhood and has lesser changes of being better changes while another is blessed with all that one needs. I am sure all of us have asked ourselves about the existing inequality of life and wondered if there is a just God ?
    Or does He play dice with his creation?
    It is not possible that mankind has worshipped a Being who is unjust from Centuries ? Worshipping one who is Creating inquality of terrible measures? How can dictators like Hitler have gone scotfree after all that he did? People have to pay a price somewhere else in some other form if not in the current one. The Law of Karma takes over whether we believe it or not. “In God’s court, man reaps what he sows”.
    The theory of rebirth fits in perfectly when one looks at it this way.–> God cannot be unjust. IF there is somebody who is suffering now, it means the soul has to learn the lesson and so placed under circumstances where he can learn that lesson and moves on. If someone is happy, then he/she earned it from good deeds/thoughts.
    I had many questions answered by this book called
    — “Many Mansions” by Dr.Gina Cerminara. and
    Many Masters Many Lives – By Dr.Brien Weiss. (Pyshiatrist at the Yale Univ.USA).
    These are priceless teachings in there as old as our Vedas.I hope atleast some of you who read this post reads these books.
    “We are infinite beings dreaming finite dreams” – Swami Vivekananda

  27. A stimulating read. From meditation experiences I can just add that consciousness reduced to neural activity is a tiny picture. Most meditators experience more than any science fiction written till date. It can be extremely difficult to spell out the flights of consciousness but my belief is that science will never be able to validate or fully comprehend the cosmic intelligence. Take ‘autobiography of a yogi’ as a true life account. Can science interpret it?

  28. I work both as a research engineer and a scientist – but to be objective , science is imperfect since the scientists themselves are imperfect and all theses based on imperfect observations due to imperfect senses and tools make the view , blind leading the blind .
    however , there is truth to mathematics and when science is an expression of creativity – such a scientist’s work is not different from a painters , or a poets’. trying to do things in new ways is technology – science itself is due for a huge revamp – newtonian physics saw the dump , so has einstien’s – speed of light is no limit , and is snail’s pace compared to … any guesses?
    spirit sir , not matter , not light !

  29. Hi Bulbul,
    Yes, Autobiography of Yogi is one eye opening read. You cannot reason Cosmic Intelligence using Science as a tool. Science is limited in many ways. Like Rudra pointed out. Einstein’s physics is being revamped. String Theory is ruling. 50 years from now,there will be something else.
    People who train their minds can see and reach the Limitless ,cross barriers of time and space and dimension. It is certain we are not here by accident or chance. We are here for a purpose….a strong one.

  30. Hi Shekhar,
    This is Ajit,a long time friend of Pramodh Menon,
    I GUESS YOU KNOW WHO.
    The arguments and discussion can go on for ever,
    but who ever arrived at silence by talking.
    Mind your Mind and matter doesn’t matter.
    And finally reaching the very source of your mind/ego you arrive at silence\reality\real-I-sation etc,etc.
    Real-I-sation is to LOOK WITHOUT SEEING.
    ENOUGH IS SAID AND DOCUMENTED ON THIS SUBJECT IN
    THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF RAMANA MAHARASHI(AS WITH THE LIFE OF ALL TRUE MASTERS)
    Strongly recommend reading ‘Talks with Bhagavan’
    published by Ramana Ashramam,Tiruvannamali,Tamilnadu-India.
    If one identifies ones BEING with the body-senses-world through the I-EGO thought,i.e the outgoing awareness then there is the world,birth,death,reincarnation for the ego,
    If one abides as pure BEING there is none of the above only SAT(BEING)as-CHIT(CONSIOUSNESS)is-ANAND(BLISS).
    Analogies:1.Sound is vibration of air particles On
    the SUBSTRATUM of Silence- Mind is vibration of Thought On the SUBSTRATUM of Awareness(SELF,BEING).
    SOUND =THOUGHT/SILENCE=SELF
    2.All of colours in this world is only THE WHITE LIGHT —ALL of creation is only the light of CONSCIOUSNESS/BEING/SELF.
    3.All of the world of electrical\electronic gadgets is nothing but Electricity manifest,
    All of the world of objects is Awareness manifest.
    Bottom line :
    1.One cannot comprehend with the mind\intellect that which is beyond it as their source.
    2.The wave cannot comprehend the ocean but can become the ocean.
    3.Knowing truth/god IS BEING TRUTH=GOD.
    BE-THE SELF
    Warm Regards.

  31. Hi Shekhar,
    This is Ajit again.
    On the matter of science and its quest for truth/
    origin of life&universe,search for unity etc. it is like trying to take measurements with a tool(mind) that is itself not caliberated.A set of scientists are sitting behind the telescope and trying to comprehend the MACRO-UNNIVERSE and another set behind electron microscopes & cyclotrons figuring the MICRO-UNNIVERSE, none is aware of the NUT BEHIND THE WHEEL so to say- THE SCIENTIST HIMSELF FOR WHOM ALL THIS MATTERS.As Swami Vivekananda said Spirituality(religion) starts where science ends.
    ALL KNOWLEDGE IN THIS WORLD IS RELATIVE KNOWLEDGE(relative to oneself).Only SELF KNOWLEDGE IS ABSOLUTE-DIRECT-ETERNAL-REAL.
    For a change if the scientific community were to look at the SCIENCE of the SELF, realised and lived by various masters around the world along the ages ,rather than shy away from it(forget the truth in all the scriptures) they will do much greater service to them selves and humanity.For true solution to world problems begin with true understanding of oneself,which does not figure in any school academics.What a pity to, drive a stupid vehicle you need training and license but the much acknowledged most powerful tool in the world -the human mind -there is no formal training.Hence you end up with problems leading to psychiatrists, Wars leading to U.N.
    Swami Chinmayananda’s address to the U.N. called PLANET IN CRISIS ,VCD available with chimaya mission,is an excellant summation of all of man’s and the world’s problems.
    Regards-Have anice day.

  32. Shekar,
    You need to think straight and easy. You are making things complicated and twisted. Be straight forward and live straight forward. We must all stop playing God and be humans accepting our weaknesses.

  33. Hey ,
    the bit about life before death is a lift from Jiddu krishna murty. Not the other sulking and constipated krishnamurthy who led Mahesh Bhatt and others.
    The polemical poser about life before death only highlights the need to check the quality of mind and go further towards subtler realities in which beauty rules and the insignificance of the monstrously grand ideas of ours drop like shells.
    The trio of Kant- conscience, aesthetics and god are one- these are the three flowers of the same reality. Rest is sham- however appealing and binding it may be. Too hollow to appeal in the long run.
    Love dear.

  34. Hi Shekhar,
    Quite right, I mentioned right at the onset one cannot arrive by discussing and explaining the state of silence,pure awareness ,it sounds complicated(I guess not more complicated than the scientists versions),but that was a sincere effort trying to explain my experience of awareness and also that explained by the masters.I am not trying to play god, for to know god there has to be a me or I.The concept of god needs to be addressed first before trying to find him. The true quest is to find oneself. And I guess thats what all the others on this site are trying to address.I rest my words in SILENCE\AWARENESS-THE UNMANIFEST GOD.
    ALL THE BEST,REGARDS AJIT.

  35. Dear Shekar,
    I just read the first line of your post and beg to differ.
    how can you make an assumption that there is no life after death?
    if there is no life after death, then why on earth are we here for? is there any meaning to life even? if there is no life after death, there should be no moral absolutes.
    still, why do we want to do good..be good? if it is going to account for nothing…then it is all meaningless.
    but, thank God, it isn’t. at the end of the day, we are accountable for who we are and what we do with our lives and the million choices we make.
    there is so much i’d like to share about my views on this subject….it’s well summarized here: http://www.rameshrichard.com/ Ramesh Richard is a philospher.
    Do read this website when free…very thought provoking.
    God bless you.

  36. Dear Mon, do read beyond the fist page and you will find a lot more than the first line, as also the wonderful discussions between the visitors to this blog, shekhar

  37. Greetings World! I welcome you today, to consider one of the hardest questions, the most influential controlling questions of your life and your death. But Im going to present it in such a way that you can understand it and absorb it. In fact, let me do a guided discussion of the life after death perspectives and proofs, visions and versions, options and offers.
    I welcome you to our website (www.rameshrichard.com). Please register there because as you think with me through the options, you will think of many questions. And as you hear me talk, you may want to talk back with me.
    A Parable
    First, a parable. A wealthy, powerful king called the wisest man in his court to find the greatest fool in the kingdom. He handed the wisest man in the court a fools staff and said, “Find me the greatest fool in the kingdom.” And each day, the wisest man looked for the greatest fool in the kingdom and couldnt find one. And he was actually left hanging and holding the fools staff. People laughed at the wisest man, they generated mockery against him.
    One day, the king brought the wisest man into his presence and said, “Im about to launch on a very long, long journey. Im not going to return, except I dont know my final destination.” The wisest man said, “Ah ha! I have found the greatest fool in the kingdom. Its you sir, your majesty.” And he gave the fools staff back to the king. “Because you are about to start on a long journey, and you dont know your final destination.”
    Ladies and gentlemen, thats a parable which may fit you. It fits me. We will commence on a long, long journey. Its a final trip to the final destination. The question is whether youll be left holding the fools staff. This is a journey that you must take. There is no way that you and I can escape. When we depart from this life, the next journey will begin.
    The issue is “What about our post-death situation?” “Where will we be going?” I wish this was an imaginary question, like the schoolboys who were tested by the fire instructor at a fire test drill. The instructor said, “Just imagine that youre on the third floor and a fire broke out. What would you do to survive and escape?” “Simple” said a young fool, “Ill escape by not imagining that there was a fire on the third floor.” He was left carrying the fools staff.
    The issue is that you and I have to decide. Ive got good news for you. We should not plan our life around death, but we can plan our life around our life after our death. Now I dont know if you want to think and talk about this. Presently the worlds richest man, by all public records, noted that he avoids talking about life after death because he is afraid of what the issue is. Perhaps the finest mind of the 20th century, Sir Isaiah Berlin said, “I hate death. I look forward to living forever, except I dont know how to find the way to live forever.”
    Now you may not be able to avoid thinking about it, but you may avoid talking about it. I welcome you to our website because if you are thinking about it at all, wed like to think along with you. And if youd like to talk about it all, lets keep talking for awhile. And lets move each other to a firm offer, a sure option, and a safe and secure chance at life after death.
    Id like to look at this particular question under two headings:
    1) Life after death: Is there a sure option?
    2) Life after death: Is there a safe offer?
    Life After Death: Is there a sure option?
    First, life after death, is there a sure option?
    As you look towards the future, there are basically three options, not four. These options automatically exclude the others. Lets look at these three options of life after death.
    1) Go Nowhere
    The first option says you go nowhere. . . that when you die and they bury, you turn into dirt, or if they burn you, you turn into ash. Its nowhere into nothingness. Pardon the pun, but nowhere is not a live option, is it? Nowhere into nothingness. . . youre gone and thats it.
    Theres an advantage to that particular position. You dont have to be accountable to anybody. In fact, you dont even have to think. But there are some questions Id like to ask about this nowhere option. How can you explain the global preoccupation, even an obsession with a global survival instinct towards life after death? Regardless of place or persons or cultures or religions or theologies or philosophies, there is always this sense around the world of looking for a different and better order, that something will be different in the post-life situation. Whether its Nirvana, or Moksha, or realization of oneness, or an extension into nothing, or an attainment of unity with something else, or eternal life into heaven, they are all looking for a different and better order of matter than they presently face. Indeed you can never be sure that there is no life after death. Thats why all over the world, you have that same sense, that there is something. . . a global survival instinct.
    Come with me to the ancient civilizations of Assyria or Babylon in the Middle East. Come with me to Latin American cultures of Mayan and Incan heritage. Or come with me to the powerfully influenced regions of Indian and Chinese religion. Come with me to the contemporary practices of Africa or the South Pacific. In any context, youll always find a version of something else happening after death. The question is how come?. . . if you think there is nothing, anywhere at death?
    And then you add the personal survival imperative. People all over the world before us have had a wish and want to somehow survive. They want to actually go into the afterlife. Depending on which religion, which philosophy, or which theology you pursue, there are various routes, some circuitous routes and some tedious routes as to how to obtain this different and better order. People are pursuing life after death.
    If you came to the west with me, there is a science called cryonics. They actually have businesses built based on freezing your body at death, so that one day when the cause for death is found, they will help you resuscitate. And when you resurrect from the death, they will hopefully keep you alive, except we dont know what will prevent you from your next death. Actually they need to figure out a way to pursue an anti-aging device through perhaps stem cell research and human genome influence and other medical advances to keep you getting younger. Otherwise youll come back to life the way you died. . . pretty old and haggard. Life insurance benefits are now sometimes used in order to find ways to live through and get frozen and become resuscitated again. Im told that there are two scientists who work at the cryonics firm, and one man exclaimed, “I have found a secret of the afterlife. . . only it will take forever to test it.”
    There is a personal survival imperative and Im not talking about the wish inside your culture, but rather the wish inside your very heart wanting to live past death. Why do you experience that? Maybe theres an eternity set in your heart because of memory or longing or need. Philosophers call this the indirect evidence of reality. Have you noticed that everything else that you need, whether its food or sleep or drink or sex, if appropriately approached can all be met because thats the w ay reality is constituted. Likewise, if theres a universal longing and a personal imperative of a need and yearning for life after death, then the likelihood that this is how reality is constituted is something you must take into careful consideration.
    But the real problem with nothing into nowhere, going nowhere after death, is that life is not just enough. I mean all these evildoers in the world who rape and kill will never be brought to justice because their death becomes equalizing and nothing can be repaid. Is that how life should be run, where there is no justice at all? So I want to ask you a very important question. Does death really have the last word? For if you go into nowhere, then this is the land of the living, but is this really the land of the living? This is the land of the dying isnt it? You and I are going to die. This is not the land of the living. I believe it was Mark Twain, the great American writer who said, “Though not having found one atom of proof of a future life, I am strongly inclined to still expect the life to come” Why did he feel that way? Why do you sense that? Well, its probably because youve got eternity set in your heart. You have a memory, a longing, and a need. Youre not going into nowhere.
    2) Come Back Here
    The second option of life after death is the view that you come back here. You come back to this earthly order. This is often based in a basic belief called reincarnation, which says that somehow at death there is a transmigration of souls, and your life begins to inhabit another body. Depending on how you perform in this life, because of the law of Karma, you either go up the order of privilege or go down the order of privilege. If you lived and you performed reasonably well and skillfully and did well, you can ascend, but if you didnt do so well and you lived badly, then you will descend.
    It seems like there is anecdotal proof for reincarnation. It seems like some people have vivid memories and living memories or dreams of their past lives. Although not easily falsifiable, they hold it. And then there is the powerful phenomenom of children who are born with giant intellect or great talent in music or art, who seem to have been geniuses who have now inhabited the childrens bodies. But the best of all, reincarnation seems just, for whatever you sow, you must reap. Whatever you sow, your actions are entailed in what you come out to be in the next life.
    I still have some questions about reincarnation that Id like you to consider with me. . . with an open mind as a careful juror, not as a careless fool holding on to a fools staff. Please listen. If reincarnation is true, then this life itself is life after death. Thats why they say the slogan of the annual Reincarnation Convention is “Welcome back.” A philosophy professor once asked his class, “Does anybody have experience in reincarnation?” and a quiet student in the back put up his hand and said, “No sir, at least not in this life.” The student was being wise and honest because in reincarnation, this life itself is life after death. This is simply what youve got.
    On the surface, the law of Karma seems to be providing justice, at least impersonally, a transcendental fatalism as it were. But if you look deeper into reincarnation, it has some greater problems in the issue of justice.
    I want you to think that on the basis of reincarnation that Adolf Hitler who died in April 30, 1945 in Germany was born in immediately as Ravi Sharma in Rangoon, Burma (now Myanmar) on May 1, 1945 as a quadriplegic and he did not have use of his atrophied arms and legs. Hes on the streets begging for help so that he may be fed and clothed. Reincarnation comes and says to him, “Ravi, the problems with you is that you were Adolf Hitler in the last life. You killed so many people and you deprived millions of people of independent thought, so now you are suffering the punishment for your sins as Hitler.” Immediately, Ravi says, “Wait, please explain this to me. Why should I, Ravi Sharma born in Rangoon, because of the law of Karma have to experience the punishment for Hitlers sins? I am not Hitler, I am Ravi, let Hitler experience the punishment for his sins. I shouldnt be experiencing the punishments for Hitlers sins. This is very unjust.”
    But the biggest problem with reincarnation is what we call the existential problem. Nobody that I know, who believes in reincarnation, is really looking forward to the next life. They want to escape the next life, they are not looking forward to coming back to the next life. Coming back here seems to give you some control of justice, but actually there is no control of your destination at all, especially if you dont want to come back here. So the first option at death is to go nowhere. The second option is to come back here.
    3) Relocate Elsewhere
    Theres a third option. . . to relocate elsewhere. I mean, either in heaven or in hell for eternity. That is to have eternal life in heaven forever with God or eternal death in hell away from God forever. Thats the third option. Some time ago on the side of a bus, I saw a writing that said, “one life, one chance” The word chance can be translated luck, as in “You got lucky. You have a chance of winning the lottery.” But the word luck can also be translated opportunity. And today, I want to give you an opportunity of the good fortune of being sure of your option of eternal life, and being safe with the offer of eternal life. Because if youre relocating elsewhere, then the following premises are clear:
    You only have one life. You only have one life and one death. You have one life, one death, and one resurrection (is that coming back to earth? No. Its being raised from the dead). One life, one death, one resurrection. Fourthly, one judgment, which means that after you die, youre resurrected and you face judgment for everything that you have done on this side of death. And fifth, one destiny, meaning, you either go to heaven or hell. Because of the nature of justice, nobody will be in heaven who should not be there and of course nobody will be in hell who should not be there either. What if were all headed to hell and have to change direction in order to come to heaven? Ponder that.
    I hope youve registered on our website because as you think through these and other questions, Id like to talk with you. In a moment, Ill extend the invitation, more than just to our website (www.rameshrichard.com), more than just thinking or talking, but an invitation to a far more important proposition.
    So we have finished now with the surest option. For you only have three options. 1) Going nowhere, 2) Coming back here, or 3) Relocating elsewhere. And all of these options are mutually exclusive. That is. . .
    You cant go nowhere AND come back here and relocate elsewere.
    You cant come back here AND go nowhere and relocate elsewhere.
    You cant relocate elsewhere AND come back here and go nowhere.
    There is only one “you” in question and you have to decide.
    I told you about that slogan on the side of the bus which said, “one life, one chance.” I wish the person who wrote that slogan couldve added to it by writing, “one life, once chance, one choice.” Because you have to make a choice. I want to give you the safest offer. Life after death, the surest option is relocating elsewhere.
    Now think about those questions. Think about those issues, about which view is most reliable. Which view is most prudent, full of wisdom and forethought so that you wont be left with the “fools staff”? Think about which view is the most practical. Which is the least risky? In every other area of life, you have to consider risk. . . who you marry, where to locate, what job you should pursue. And so in the order of life after death, the issue is which view is least risky. Thats being prudent and practical.
    If youre prudent, youll ask a question like this.
    “Which view really provides you a personal choice?” Or are you victimized by an impersonal karmic law or a whimsical divine will that there is no choice at all?
    “Which view does not upgrade the next life and downgrade this life, or upgrade this life and downgrade the next life, so that death is simply a seamless transition from this life to the next life?”
    “Which view is confirmable, substantiated, and verifiable?”
    “Which view has the same condition and criteria for the entire human race, wherever there is human instinct and a personal wish to survive death?”
    To answer those questions, youll be prudent, but since youre very practical, you also going to choose the least risky option.
    Life After Death: Is there a Safe Offer?
    Is there a safe offer for life after death? There is a safe offer. Think with me on this matter. Ive just finished reading a very large book by the finest contemporary researcher, writer, secular, and leading sociologist on the problem of the afterlife. In examining near death experiences, he asks this question that each person must consider. He says, “Can there truly be scientific testimony of a person who visited the abode of the dead and came back with a verifiable travelers report?” This means that if such a person existed, he would be the most authoritative source on the offer of life after death. Let me repeat that question. “Can there truly be a scientific testimony of a person who is presently alive who visited the abode of the dead and came back with a verifiable travelers report?” Consider the question. He was really giving us four potential sources for information about life after death.
    Four sources
    1) The first source of a safe after life offer is somebody who has never lived and therefore never died. Fictional persons, mythological figures, fairy tale characters have never lived and therefore never died. And many ancient religions are built on these thought up characters. But they are not a reliable source for life after death and a safe life offer.
    2) The second source of a safe after life offer is somebody who is presently alive and not yet dead. Philosophers and preachers and researchers and romanticists, they fit that category. They are presently alive and are not yet dead. But they are not a creditable source of information on life after death because you can be as much an authority as they are. They can spin the theories, but theories are not proof.
    3) Theres a third potential source of a safe after life offer. Somebody who lived and died and stayed dead. Gurus, prophets, founders of religions, and emperors kings have all fit into that category. They lived, died, and they stayed dead. How would you go to them as a credible, reliable source for what happens in life after death? You may have to consider spirit mediums but you still have the problem of access and verifiability. Is it really true that they give you a safe after life offer?
    4) The fourth potential source of a safe after life offer is somebody who lived, who died, and came back to life.
    Now as I look at the four offers, somebody who lived, died and came back to life is the best candidate and the most authoritative source for a safe after life offer, because its the only one who has known the other side of the story and has come back with a verifiable travelers report for you. Actually, in history, there is one such case. . . one such verifiable confirmable travelers report.
    You can live until the end of history to find out about the report, but it may be a little too late. You could wait until the end of macro history until everybody ends up where theyre supposed to going, but that wont be good enough either. You need a safe after life offer before you die, in time not a little bit too late, so that you can have confidence of the safe after life offer.
    A Verifiable, Confirmable Travelers Report?
    Is there a person who gives you not only a promise, but also a guarantee? There are other people who can say you relocate in heaven or on earth, but there is only one person who guarantees you that he can take you to your eternal life in heaven. This person came back from the dead in the only confirmable, verifiable travelers report in all the history and claims of humanity.
    Its a pretty bizarre claim isnt it? But its an easy claim. Its bizarre because its saying somebody came to life after death. But its an easy claim because its one of the easiest ways to go ahead and establish the evidence of such an event. Any open jury will look at this particular event and come to a conclusion because this particular presentation of the evidence says that there are multiple attested sources of eyewitness testimony, of credibility in material respects, as well as passing the test of objectivity and verifiability, and then the elaborate circumstantial evidence, which not only will convince a jury, but will actually require the jury to establish the case. That is indeed the situation right now.
    This one person who came back to life after death with the safe after life offer, do you know how he went about doing that? First, he predicted that he would die. Now anybody can predict that he will die. You can predict that, and thats easy to verify. But not only that, he predicted that on a very verifiable third day, hed come back to life. Thats easy to check up on too. On the third day, you can find out if the person comes back to life. You can go ahead and you can predict that, but youll only be making noises, not promises or guarantees.
    Actually, the story of this resurrection is quite well known throughout our history. . . so well known that it generated another story that you may not have heard about it. Im told about a man and his ever nagging wife who went to Jerusalem for a vacation. Unfortunately, she died. The Jerusalem authority said that she could be buried for about $150, or take her back home for about $5,000 in travel and burial costs. The man did not hesitate to say that he wanted his ever nagging wifes body to be sent back home. And the Jerusalem authority said, “Why would you want to spend $5,000 when you can get rid of the body for $150?” The man said, “Sir, a long time ago, I know that somebody was buried in Jerusalem and he resurrected on the third day. If that is true, I dont want to take the chance with my wife, the fact that she may resurrect.”
    This person predicted that on the third day, hed come back again, and he was checked out to be right. The best part of it all is not only does he come back to life on the third day, he also makes the safest offer of eternal life that you and I consider. Ive given you hints all through the program that the person Im talking about is the Lord Jesus Christ. He lived and he died and he came to life in the only verifiable travelers report. And therefore, today I am not speaking to you as a bystander, but as a critic. Im not speaking to you as a witness, but as a juror. Ive looked at the evidence and want to present him to you as the surest option and safest offer for your own life after death.
    In one of his presentations, he said this
    “I tell you the truth, that anyone who hears my Word and believes on Him who sent me, has eternal life. And shall not come into condemnation, but has passed from death to life”
    Consider those words with me phrase by phrase. First Jesus says, “I tell you the truth”. This is true truth. This is not a theory, this is truth. This is not mythology, this is truth. This is not opinion, this is truth. This is not perspective, this is truth. “I tell you the truth. . . ”
    “. . . that anyone” from whatever nation, religion, background, caste, place. . . anyone regardless of environment or family, anyone who hears my word. You are right now hearing (or reading) his word, even as I speak youre hearing (or reading) his offer. . . . “. . . hears my word and believes on him who sent me. . . ” Most of you believe on the God who sent his Son. Some of you dont believe him. Others of you believe in other gods. But if you believe on the God who sent Jesus, not just believing that He exists, but believing in him, on him, not only thinking about him and talking about him, not only working for eternal life and trying to attain eternal life or spinning your own theories, but believing, resting, trusting, taking him, believing on him. . . “[you] have eternal life.” You HAVE eternal life, already right now. Not you may have eternal life, there is no contingency, there is no risk. Not you shall have eternal life in the future. Were not talking about future life only. Were talking about eternal life right now. You can have eternal life, right now. And then whenever you die, you go on into eternal life with God forever in heaven. The last phrase says, “has passed from death to life” Not MAY pass, but has already passed from condemnation into life. Youll never come into condemnation.
    The reason you and I are under condemnation (we dont have to do anything to go to hell, were already under condemnation) is because weve not pleased God. Weve done many things wrong. Weve not met his expectations. Weve sinned. In fact, your upcoming death and my upcoming death is proof that we are under condemnation, because the penalty for sin is death. But what the Lord Jesus did when he died was to pay for the penalty of your condemnation and my condemnation, for your sin and my sin. When he came back to life, that was proof that God had accepted what Jesus had provided. Because fakes and frauds and liars and hypocrites and pretenders wont be resurrected from the death, only truth can be resurrected from the dead, never ever to die again.
    Jesus says, you will never come into condemnation, you have passed from death to life. One life, one chance, one choice. You cannot assume that youre going to heaven. You cannot assume that youre not going to hell. But today you have a choice. . . that you can actually receive eternal life, even as I am talking, trusting the Lord Jesus as the only authoritative source for you to possess eternal life.
    A Basis for Belief
    Not long ago, I was in the land of Egypt. In Egypt, they know how to take care of the dead. From millennia, they mummify the bodies. They mummify the bodies of the ones that they thought could provide them hope for the future. They took their emperors and put them in executive class boats to take them into the abode of the dead. They gave them very fine cotton-filled pillows so that they can rest eternally well. One emperor actually mummified his liver. They did all sorts of things like embalming anything that could be living in order to make the passage into eternity just right. There was even an emperor who had a golden diadem crown. A 19th century Egyptologist went to this land to excavate. They found that they had too many mummies. From millennia, hundreds and thousands of years, they had mummified and they had too many mummies, too many of these embalmed remains. And what the Egyptians had done, was they took these mummies and made thatched roofs for their huts. And they sent the mummy remains to the west in order to make fine paper out of them. And for Egyptian locomotive train engines, they took the mummies and turned them into fuel because wood was scarce in Egypt.
    And as I pondered it, all of these original mummies when they were sent off to life after death were well-intentioned, but their belief was absolutely baseless. What the Lord Jesus does is he takes your well-intentioned desires and says, Ill give you a basis for belief. Im the only one who has lived, died, and risen from the dead so that you can put your trust in me and I will be your surest option and your safest offer of life after death.
    One life, one chance, one choice. I dont want you to be left with the fools staff. Come to our website, write to me, lets engage. Ive left the fools staff. Im not holding it, and I dont want you to handle it either. We shouldnt plan life around our death, but you can plan for life after death. Thank you very much.

  38. when things become too complex, answer lies in simple neglected thoughts. Shouldnt we be thinking in terms of why did the apple fall down?
    Is life different from soul. Is soul different from consciousness. Is consciousness different from thought process. And is reality dependent on thought process. shouldnt reality be universal. Do we even need to prove that by any experiment. If we believe that reality is just an imagination whats the point in discussing. That theory would nullify everything.
    I dont think Science understands either life or death. scientists are just trying to fill the vacuum by using words such as neurotransmitters and thought processes, and telling us exactly what the yogis told us 1000s of yrs ago. How does language make one a scientist and the other a yogi when both are saying the same thing. I haven’t heard any scientist ever even imagine the possibility that science can bring back the dead. isn’t it quite obvious then that even science secretly believes in Godly powers. If there have been scientific documentations of reincarnations why hasn’t the whole scientific community got behind the cases and tried analysing them. Isn’t Life and death the most important question in front of us.
    Religions address this question in rather absurd ways. Some religions stress upon belief beyond question and reason. Its almost like saying if u come to me i ll give u the apple. But i ll not even give any reason for u to believe that I am the only one u should or must come to. Its a lucky draw competition. What amazes me is the no of people who not only staunchly believe but also feel its their duty to tell others. Can God be so naive and mean. From the looks of the whole thing isnt it quite obvious that God, assuming there is one, actually wants us to question and ponder.

  39. Mind can be one’s friend or enemy. Mind is the cause for both bondage and liberation. The word mind is derived from man to think and the word man derived from manu (Sanskrit word for man).
    “The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone’s heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy.”
    There is no theory to be internalized and applied in this psychology. Ancient practices spontaneously induce what each person needs as the individual and the universal coincide. The work proceeds through intellectual knowledge of the playing field ( jnana yoga), emotional devotion to the ideal (bhakti yoga) and right action that includes both feeling and knowledge (karma yoga). With ongoing purification we approach wisdom. The Bhagavad-Gita is a message addressed to each and every human individual to help him or her to solve the vexing problem of overcoming the present and progressing towards a bright future. Within its eighteen chapters is revealed a human drama. This is the experience of everyone in this world, the drama of the ascent of man from a state of utter dejection, sorrow and total breakdown and hopelessness to a state of perfect understanding, clarity, renewed strength and triumph. May the wisdom of loving consciousness ever guide us on our journey. What makes the Holy Gita a practical psychology of transformation is that it offers us the tools to connect with our deepest intangible essence, and we must learn to participate in the battle of life with right knowledge.
    “Freed from attachment, fear and anger, absorbed in Me, and taking refuge in Me, purified by the penance of knowledge, many have attained union with My Being.” (Gita 4:10)

  40. I’ve died 63 times. I’ve been born 64 times. I know I’m the same man I’ve always been. I know that all of you have been here, with me,
    in each lifecycle. I know where we are. Judgement, if there was any, has come and gone.
    We are living the “after-life” right now.
    The “after-life” is eternal.
    I’ll be writing this post again, word for word, in my next lifecycle #65.
    I could live this life a million times and never get tired of it.

  42. I have read many conflicting reports regading the existence of an afterlife. Much as I would like to believe in this earthly fantasy I can see no purpose for such an existence. Regarding the Soul, I am of the opinion that this is just the memory left behind with those who remember the departed.Most of us have short lived souls whereas the notorious or famous have souls that are recorded for posterity

  43. Wow!
    is there life before death?
    Kya interesting question hei! aur phir thoda scientific hota chala jaata hei…
    Yeh scientest log kabhi bhi solution ki taraf nehi jaatein hei…yeh log sirf problem samaj ney mei lagey hei…aur woh log isi liye nehi jaatein because everyday unko pata hei jo aaj kaha hei, kal nehi hoga, yeh question ko aur ik question mei questioning karna padega…funny
    abhi yehi scientest log brain bol rahe hei…pahle toh mujhe yeh pata karna hei ki yeh jo scientest log brain ki working capacity pata kartein hei…jaise Einstien ka brain 12% tha, Ford ka jyyaada tha…toh mei bhi apna brain test kara loon kya pata mere brain ka percentage Einstien bhaiyya se jyaada ya kam toh nehi…aur mei inn scientest ko poochna chahata hoon woh time magazine waaley patrakar log ko ki bhaiyya app “mind” kidhar hei jara bolney ka kast karengey?
    kisi ney kaha hei…dimaag kya hota hei…jo padarth nehi hota woh dimaag aur padarth kya hota hei…jo dimaag nehi hota!
    actually hamaara poori duniya ka science mar gaya hei..200 saal pahle mar gaya…uskey pahle tha…abhi toh shurvaat hue hei…jaise kal maine pada ki Russia mei ik camera hei jo insaan ki aura…body ki sushma tarang ki tasveer nikaal sakti hei…usko Aura kahetey hei…par kabhi aap dekhogey ki agar koi acche sant key paas aapa gaye toh woh sant app ki tarang ko bina camera ki pakad lega…
    maut key pahle kya zindagi hei…zaroor hei…maut key baad jo marta hei uski zindagi nehi hei par jo zinda hei woh pooch raha hei maut key baad kya zindagi hoti hei…aur kabhi kabhi pakad mei aa bhi jaati hei kuch log ko…jo science nehi accept karega…bas wohi log accept karengey jinko pyaas hei…par zindagi maut se kaafi kaafi taqkatwar hei…isi liye accha lagta hei jab Shekhar Kapur aisa prashna poochtey hei kya maut se pahle zindagi hei…

  45. Hello Shekar,
    Mind is a huge database of knowledge acquired over the years. Even new born babies get to know how to ask for milk by crying once they get to know the taste of it. When that being the case – in daily life we all use only that much knowledge as is required for a particular usage. Eg- if u have a running nose and rund to the doctor then the doctor need not exercise his ‘entire’ acquired medical knowledge to find a remedy. he will only refer to what is required for a running nose.
    What is the use of so much knowledge? It all becomes a Zero one fine day ( like they u take nothing when u die).
    As we r born we cry as to why we came to earth and then we slowly begin to smile as we get accustomed with the surrounding and upbringing.But then when our call comes to return back then yetwhy do we cry?In fact we must smile because we return right where we once used to remain in bliss (smiling).
    When we are asked to sleep while watching our fav Tv program we first relent but then when we get to really sleep (due to force) then your fav TV prog is ‘nothing’. Sleep (like death) is more important to you and wish to continue with its pleasures. Rather you would even kill anybody who will try to wake you from sleep (to watch your fav TV prog).
    And Oh the heaven ? Where is the mind or body to enjoy its pleasures? We need a physical being and the senses to enjoy? where r they anymore? all our sense organs including our mind (brain)with our bodies are cremated or destroyed.
    We must all work for detachment from our ego of the ‘I’ consciousness. When there is no ‘I’only then where is the origin and where is the destination of this nothing called ‘I’.

  46. Hi Shekar,
    I’m all of 22, and discovering myriad things about consciousness. I’m trying to see this world as a continous flow of energy. Why the imbalance was caused for this flow, is a question tingling in my mind. What ever happens, is just a interaction of energy. I believe this flow takes place in a structured manner like a “PATTERN” or the “MATRIX”. So i don’t see any concepts such as death or birth or the way of life itself. During the interactions the pattern sometimes get stored – like a photograph for future possible interactions and our conscious is very similar to feedback control loop.It is a merely a fixed pattern interacting with other changing patterns. So during these interactions,the conscious tries to decode the various changing patterns caused by the energy flow. So death in one sense can mean, the destruction of the fixed energy pattern- the everyday conscious.

  48. Shekhar
    I don’t know u wil be able to answer this or not.It does’nt matters how many life or how many death we had or we will have. the question is why we are here for. People say each life has a unique role to play here.But I feel nothing happens if u play or not play ur role here. Gandhi was a great soul, he played his role in providing independence. But do u think if he had not done this we would not have acheived independence. Some one else would not have taken that role. Again take a negative point. Hitler was the cause of millons death. After death its only that we admire few or look down upon som1. But whats the final destination. Is this life a station or a jorney. why do we take up so much pain here when we know whats ultimate truth.

  50. Unquestionably believe that which you said. Your favorite reason appeared to be on the web the easiest thing to be aware of. I say to you, I definitely get annoyed while people consider worries that they plainly don’t know about. You managed to hit the nail upon the top and defined out the whole thing without having side effect , people could take a signal. Will likely be back to get more. Thanks

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