Does an event create a disharmony, a ripple that provokes us into action so that we become part of the creation of it ? Mistakingly assuming we created the event ? Are we slaves to the event while we think of ourselves as creators of the ‘it’ ?
Nor are we separate from the event. The event and us, inseparable part of the same play being imagined by the Universe in all eternity. The event itself part of a ripple caused by another. And so on, but circling right back, the ripples being the eternal cause and effect of each other. Enclosed in nothing but timelessness.
Part of discussions that came up as I opened my installation at the Swarovski museum in Austria
Perhaps we are not only the cells that exist within our bodies alone. Just with the breath alone, we are taking in and letting out so many other energies and forces that interplay with the universe, therefore, to fathom that we are the cause or creators of an event(s) is like saying the leaf on the tree is the whole tree.
It it such an intricate and delicate play and dance of existance…that one cannot imagine any particular event occuring on its own, how is that possible?
if the creation of the event and attachment, involvement in the event is as easy and as natural as we just breathe, see, hear then the cause and effect will not touch..I think..
Sounds like “Butterfly effect”!
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@Kavi Deepak Sharma
http://www.kavideepaksharma.co.in
http://www.kavideepaksharma.com
http://shayardeepaksharma.blogspot.com
God the creator of event i.e., Universe and rest is the history.
Why god created Universe that is a question ?
Any answers ?
Its too a big topic.
Two events are not entirely in control
Birth
Death (unless suicide)
The whole lifetime is an event!
It depends on an individual how they percieve each event or paradgim shift.
Now two events are same.
I find the topic “Does the event create the cause”? in opposition to what you later tell one aspect of the effect.
But yes for past, if one understands the effect, with chain of right reasoning one can go to the cause. What about the future?
why do we ask why?
This is like asking, is everything that happens destined to happen ? If the events in the world are anything to go by one would shudder to say Yes. Maybe some events create their cause but not all. Most events are shaped by our free will into good or bad.
discordant chorus
of the universe
in an eternal waltz
one note into another
one step to the next
cause and effect
all flowing toward
a seamless whole
until,
within the cacophony
disharmony merged
into symphonic melody
within the swirl
duality enclosed
to a seamless sway…
like diverse facets
in crystal merged
as seamless ripples
of reflections emerged
dancing to the
grace and rhythm of Light
as infinite possibilities
of timeless purity & beauty…
existential potentiality
within a crystal enclosed
pure radiance
through a crystal unleashed
…neither cause nor effect,
a crystal world
hmmm…it’s great when one uses one’s intellect to understand… but to truly go beyond, the intellect has to be left behind…
what purpose then of such a discussion other than intellectual masturbation?
Masturbation has its uses, but if one gets too caught up in it, one misses out on the real union…
😉
Shekhar! good to see you after a long break.
I wonder they say mukti from the cycle of life and death is acheived by remaining unattached and renouncing everything. In this case if you take a lake as an example and someone throws in a pebble, it cause a ripple which affects the stillness of the water and creates ripples. the lake is not the cause of the event but part of it. In this case the stillness of the lake is disturbed by a pebble thrown in by some bystander not due to anything the lake did by itself…so in this case how can the lake be blamed for the disturbance..I dunno if I am making any sense here or if this examples is not the right one :-)sorry if I am not making sense.
Only If one believes in Time.Or else its all now and here-both the event and the cause.
The mango had the tree in it.The tree has a mango on it.Which event which the cause?
This post had the possibility of this comment appearing here.My comment needed a post like this to appear.Which caused what?
I take pleasure from the fact that a Shekhar Kapoor exists.I’m sure you do from the fact that there are people on the planet who understand you.
An Event if formulated by Nature, never creates disharmony. Say for eg. the Tsunami of 2004–despite the ravages, it still brought us all together.
However, an Event if formulated by Man, always creates disharmony. For eg, when the twin towers at Newyork were gutted down to dust, we immediately began hating one another.
But yes, as Shekar says, whatever the cause or result of the Event, we always tend to go hand in hand with ‘it’
http://www.dnaindia.com/entertainment/report_when-shekhar-kapur-cried_1267509
What a beautiful heart u have.
I read this a couple of times and it still leaves me confused. Thoughtful.
An event provokes us into action- ok got that- in my mind I see the Dandi march events, people joining into the stream, a mass of people becoming part of the event.
But here they are part of a whole, smaller subunits, contributing to it, but still a subunit.
The people who joined in created the event- so far true.
Were they slaves to the event- stretching a point, a charismatic leader would have followers, and just perhaps they wouldn’t question- so slaves.
Maybe.
Given the human propensity to question argue,think, debate-vagerah- dunno.
Universe, eternity- I guess I’m lost here. Universe, eternity are impassive, the background, the frame -impartial to one event happening or not happening.
Events feeding into another event, ripple effects- got that.
Idi Amin or Gandhiji- how does it care? Universe marches on regardless.
“main samay hoon” says the v/o in the beginning of the Mahabharata serial.
You have the answers. Separation and doership go hand in glove. I was at one of your sadguru Vasudev’s events in the US, and he kept stressing on how everything happens inside us. There really isn’t anything as an outer event.
Jo thaa, Nahin hai !
Jo Hai… Na Hoga !!
Yehi hai ek harf mahr-o-maa`naa
Kareeb-tarr hai, Namood Jiski
Usi kaa mush`taaq, hai Zamaana !
Meri suraahi se.. qatrah-qatrah !
Nayey hawaa`dis… tapak rahe hain !
Main apni tasbeeh-e-roz-o-shab kaa
Shu`maar kartaa hoon… daana-daana !!
(Iqbal – “Zamana” or The Hand of Time )
‘Courageous is the one who brings change’
Shekhar, why do make life so complex. Why dont you just “be”. Acceptance is beautiful once you truely understand it…keep living in the moment….
austere has asked thoughtful question may be my views will be of help.
why 2+2=4 can be taught in different ways in different classes, the person teaching this is a guru and the person learning is student ‘shishya’
it all depends on how we look/react and accept/reject at all those teachers, students and classes and hence there is a scope for difference of opinion. i think when we are able to welcome all of these (classes,teachers,students)then we talk about casue and event differently..what you think..
My second post here…I am laughing…this time let me take philosophy out! And give an example of a fight.
Yes event creates disharmony!
As simple as a fight!
See any body in fight weather violent or argumentative. It is an event that very event which is not in harmony.
Somebody has to create event for sure. The cause is ego in a person! Disharmony comes at later stage. (it may be because of Ego, frustration, oppression, subject to wrong doing,misunderstanding, hurt etc., )
Somebody might have started the fight because of past history or conditioning.
But when the climax comes (the heated exchange of voices or punches), it is not in harmony of anybody’s soul/mind/being.
That anger ripples into action for a person who is more hurt or angry and takes action. But both the parties become part of that event. And in these cases one person is attacking or another taking attack but both becoming slaves to that disharmony.
Humanity in all forms of history can also be divided in two classes…one who give trouble and another who take those troubles!
I strongly think every event not necessairly creates disharmony, if your ‘self’ is absent chances of disharmony are more..
Subodhji, thanks.
I am fine with diverse opinions,the more the merrier. Its just that an active, participative universe does not fit into my simple head.
Hello Shekhar:
There is no doubt that with Michael Jackson one of the great artistic personalities of our time has entered the small ranks of those who will forever orbit in the sphere of our consciousness to be looked upon as some odd and flawed gift of the gods. He is flying out there with the likes of John Lennon, Elvis, James Dean, Heath Ledger, Oscar Wilde, …… the list could be extended, but not by very much.
In his childhood, Michael Jackson was forced to be an adult in a child’s body and in later years he regressed to his lost childhood being a child in an adult’s body. The latter act was much more credible than the former but no less tragic and sinister because of its bizarre nature. It is ironic that the world needed his death before it could fully see the uniqueness of his talent and the iconoclastic element in his artistic being.
I felt sad when I heard of his passing and I could not deny a twinge of conscience about
the ridicule we were all collectively holding him up to because of his ghostlike, otherworldly looks. There is no question that his life was never meant to end in old age and happiness, too many forces were stacked up against him many of which were fueled by his own demons that must have tormented him incessantly. Had it not ended now, a Howard Hughesian future would most probably have been his destiny with ever increasing grotesqueness to the point of outright absurdity. He went when the world was still willing to truly mourn him. As sad as it sounds but he could not have asked for anything better.
The fact that there is such a global outpouring of love and grief tells me that most people who feel that way have lost some of their own dreams and aspirations, their adherence to an era they instinctively knew had already ended well before Michael Jackson’s death had put on the stamp of finality.
With kind regards.
Horst
Somebody commented:
“Shekhar, why do make life so complex. Why dont you just “be”. Acceptance is beautiful once you truly understand it…keep living in the moment….””
The folly of language.
We take the word to be the real.
“keep living in the moment”.
My dear friend, when have you ever left this moment?
Can you ever get out of this moment?
Is there a “you” to get out of this moment?
Why don’t you just “be”?
As though there is a formula to “be”.
You are…being is what you are..
How can you try to “be”?
All trying is of the mind…
All becoming is of the mind…
You are not the mind…
you are prior to the mind…
Now watch the mind go into acrobats…resistance, defiance….
The event and us….
Why don’t we just deal with the “us”?
And the whole house collapses…
A house of cards….
The resistance is “me”….
Event by itself carries no meaning, unless I(consciousness) get involved in it.
An accident on the road may not seem to affect me, until I find someone known to me.
Walking down the road, I see many faces without any names, until I see someone known to me.
I project the individuality on a face, or on a deadbody. An event by itself is inert, the involvement fills it with sentinence.
Unless we unlearn the conditioning imposed on us, the events will always carry a meaning.
Effect is cause inside out……let us consider
one stone is pelted at a glass pane….glass breaks……… now concentrate at the very moment of contact ….the act of hitting and breaking of glass is simultaneous……….there is not a delay of even micro-seconds……if there is…..then the glass will be intact…….so first understand that contact of stone and breaking of glass is actually ……..ONE EVENT…. not two ….it is a fallacy to think that it is two…….
now look on another aspect… if stone is moving at certain speed which breaks the glass…….so stone might think “i broke the glass” but can stone produce the same result of breaking if there was a steel or wood pane…….so acceptibility of glass was also responsible for that event not just movement or hiiting of stone
so cause lies in glass too………….
so we can say for glass that ‘the ability to be broken’ was also the cause……means breaking of glass was the cause and effect both…….
now two questions arise
1)AM I THE CAUSE OF THE EVENTS THAT SURROUNDS ME
2)AM I the EFFECT OF SOME ETERNAL & EXISTENTIAL CAUSE
to understand this we have to take two approches….1)Tantrik view of world
2)quantum mechanical view of world
1st view states that ….the world is a flow which is called …time…… like a river and every thing in this world is like “logs of wood” which is flowing in the river ….by the force of river………..now you may be thinking that are we humans ..who have got brain, will, reasoning power are simply a “log of wood” ? dont we have any power or freedom to assist or resist the force of river(may be somebody had thought the same question centuries before)……
ok. lets substitute log of wood with a small fish
now even if the fish can assist or resist…. the overall movement of the fish will be the same …only it can reduce time of jouney or prolong ……what if the fish is big ?….then we can say that it has more degree of freedom in time……and can resist or assist to a certain extent..but even though it can’t go beyond the river.
so the problem arises…… it means we are still bounded by the river…..we can’t be free ..no matter how big we are…..
ok now sustitute the fish with an ice cube…..
which is flowing through the river……so what is the differece? ….it is still guided by the river like a log of wood…………
there is a differnce …….it has a special ability …a special power …….power to melt and become water …becomes one with river …now nothing is forcing it….. to flow …..it has become itself ……..THE FLOW
…THE RIVER…..’THE CAUSE’.
now if we substitute log of wood to all inanimate things of the world,animals,trees.etc
a small fish ..with a common man…….
big fish …..some very influential personalites of the past,present and future.
ice cube…….yogis who understand the reality …..and melted ice cubes are like ‘realised souls’ who lost their idividuality in the river of infinite…like budhdha,jesus,krishna etc..
now come to 2nd approch….
lets think that you are in train ….and you are observing a ball is falling from your hand to the floor …….it will be a straight line …..verically downward……but if a person is observing this from the ground…he/she will see it moving in a curved path..because train is moving horizonally too..
what it shows………………..?
we can infer two things from this experiment…1st that what we are seeing is not the truth …or…. complete ….because others are seeing differently…….its all about from where we are looking…..that will decide the result………in my result i was involved….and in the result of that person who was looking from the ground…he was involved…….now take a break …………and think………… if i am involved in the experment then …….how can i be an observer…..because an observer is one who dosen’t take part in the expeiment…and doesn’t influence the experiment………..so the conclusion at which the mordern science reached that the observer is also the part of expeiment……..it mean what is happening around us is influencing us and we are also influencing the surroundings.
means if we influence surrounding a bit …the surrounding will transfer the influence on us….so ultimately it is we who are influencing us nothging else………………..here comes THE LAW OF KARMA. whatever you sow …you shall reap………….there is nobody there to assist or punish you it is you who is assisted or punished by you…….so YOU ARE THE CAUSE…AND YOU ARE THE EFFECT too.
vishal panday mumbai
9833067513
Vishal – Beautiful analogy!
I opened this page to write a comment here and it took ages for the page to download, so I started reading the comments on the top which were downloading slowly. I was swamped by the verbosity and I lost my train of thought!
Why does life have to be explained at such lengths I wonder? Who are we trying to impress?