Deepak Chopra and I have so many conversations about consciousness and the nature of existence, mostly me searching and looking to him for answers – so sitting in his office in NY one day, we decided to ask someone to record the following rambling conversation. But there is interesting stuff in it.
http://deepakchopra.com/video/deepakandshekhar.mov
Couldn’t open that link Shekhar.Please check if thats the right one.
Regards
Sanjay
In this regard, i would like to share with You and Everyone here a conversation that happened with a friend last month where majorly i tried to express all in the area of knowing and experiencing and to some extend in the areas of knowledge around this point of pure consciousness, timelessness and allied.
In everyday world it’s approach is comparable to getting into the water with an idea that you know swimming and after a few days of efforts and practice it becomes natural and effortless as if there was nothing to learn. And I must tell you all of the great thinkers & sages – no matter whichever part of the world they are and whatever details they may have to say on it, have one thing in common and that is the fact that “One is pure consciousness. By any means get in contact with your deepest core, get aware of it which is the whole essence of your life” that is what Krishna calls as Jnana or more precisely Gyana yog, i.e transcendental truth/knowledge. In simpler words one requires to send the “ego mind” and the “chattering mind” both to the back seat and stop identifying oneself with it, to let your ‘higher Self’ take over the instructing part which is inherently pure. ‘Ego mind’ is the database of ideas and opinions. We need ego mind which is integral part of our practical life and instrumental to the daily business of living but we need not let the ego mind drive us through spoiling the true vision. The identification of oneself with the ego mind as well as the chattering mind has to go first, to be able to communicate with ones deeper levels of consciousness, for a complete understanding of one’s authentic Self deep beyond all your identifications and live up with a heightened state of awareness.
The thing which you call ‘experience’ which majority of us cannot have. And what we all have is also not pure experience but actually conceptual experience, which is also not our own, it is all borrowed(from genetical setup, parents, upbringing patterns, society, sanskaras, education, stark believe in majorly scientific proven approach, our readings, and other situational aspects and happenings) which is embodied in our sub-conscious and gives us experiences based upon these and takes us to form our affirmations, as you say. And it’s the case with you, me, everybody. So experiences in terms of forming the opinion is very “relative” like the use of words. Not that this part of us is not in the realms of our consciousness, it is but with the same very consciousness you can see where all it has been fixed or amended(and now stored as memory in the brain) from the actual identity, your pure identity. Not that what all has happened to you is rubbish and to be thrown; but with a deep realization of the whole affair you can see the clear picture and be able to see your original Self-nature, well differentiated at all points. The whole idea is only this much and in that regard is that simple.
Once you can see through all this with deep penetration you will realize you are not exactly what you are. The whole relationship of your Self and the surroundings and vice versa is revealed. And it is one of the most important things in the life to be greatly cherished in that feeling of presence and hence deeply lived. Realising this erupts the power of pure potentiality, pure consciousness, a state of absolute clarity (absolutely opposite to what you feel it creates i.e dullness or confusion). It actually brings about a way of living in which there is no contradiction – a complete inner and outer harmony. This is what spirituality is primarily about. Rest are all details/means/paths and ways and some even go ahead in explaining their experiences which are of not much relevance to the other individual who is born with his own uniqueness could be absolutely in contrast to anyone else’s experience. That is why what is beyond that shall not be the concern whatsoever. Each individual has his/her own innate possibilities and properties of his construct even after he realizes the state of his true nature.
To bring about a total way of living this inner connection is very important to be established to understand yourself not as separate. You get to know when you are there; the barometer for this state is your inner peace, you are no longer controlled by the chutter butter of the mind, you are the master. Mind and intellect work as intimate instruments for you whenever required, than you being an functional instrument in their hands. The ripples in your mind are there undisturbing to you, they settle at your own will and you can see into the bottom as if into a crystal clear lake & be able to look into the pool of your Self-conscious, you see the reality reflected there – it will reveal itself unto your whole being devoid of any labels, judgments, prejudice, attachment, anxiety, desire, ego, self-suffering, ecstasy, apathy, lust, envy, fear, force – just no anesthetics.
All clear.
And this quietness whenever felt has a perfect order, without friction, without duality of mind, without noise, with total harmony as of the order of the universe. If there is insight into the ‘thought’ it would bring order to whatever it touches & do what needs doing; and what doesn’t it withdraws from it. And the order thence achieved is the order of the universe, total, wholesome – its not that its order one day mess the other. An order that last atleast a few hundred years if not thousands: – ) It turns out to be a complete wonderful order as prevailing in the whole universe, the stars, the planets, the galaxies, etc etc etc.
[i feel like Spiritual Spielberg, ha:) i wish we get to have some of mainstream films made on such topics one day and create a contact-ful spark into a wider human consciousness creating a huge aware-full humans. If Buddhaa could walk on foot and do it on such large scale why can’t it happen through this medium of films to some scale. And Shekhar U gonna do it from where U are. I gotto do it if get there and also closer and closer ‘in there’]
And in this way everything feels like blessing;
you are in order,
life is in order,
you can put things in order in whatever you do;
and it’s actually to say you become a part of divinity in motion.
And in fact one is;
Feel it.
Don’t discard it, just because you can’t experience its level of intensity here and now.(as actually it is in the here and now)
C’mon many things are like that but we trust them to be true and live accordingly. Earth is round, but we experience it flat – most of us!! Thru our entire lifetime we never are able to ourselves experience it round. But we trust those (scientists) who have experienced it. And there are many more things like that. Science believes by experimentation whereas there are certain experiences and knowledge based upon those experiences that can only be felt and self-experienced. No way out to instrumentally prove them, atleast as yet. I will take another example – if there is someone who has never known what’s sexual attraction(lets say a 5 year old child). You try and explain him with 10,000 words you cannot still make him comprehend what it is. Even if you show him as to give him a live experience of sorts, he will still not be able to experience what’s going on – no matter what you make him do. We all mostly look and are made/tuned via modern education to go by only things that science has proved. Modern science is actually discovering certain medical things now with sophisticated instruments of testing, while the certain ancient Vedic knowledge like Ayurveda and some of the cosmic healing practices like Reiki are based upon the experience and vision of those who felt one with pure consciousness. (More examples can be actually collected with some effort for a need of comparative study. Fritjof Capra has already done some good job in this)
TIME/TIMELESSNESS
Here there are two things.
First let me take the highlight given to ‘time’ in our living system of modern times.
Have you ever realized there is nothing in natural existence called ‘Time’.
‘Time’ is a man’s invention and is just meant to be tool for relative measurement of the movement of life.
(Check out wonderful films depicting this no ‘thing’ called Time by Bernardo Bertolluci in Histoire d’eaux based upon a verse from Vishnu Mythology and The Enlightenment from Volker Schlöndorff)
Albert Einstein also has scientifically proved of its non-existence due to its varied relative nature.
But see Time has now become the center point of human existence.
Man revolves around time.
Mind revolves around time.
Life revolves around time.
It has taken away the whole pleasure of life ‘as it is’ in the moment because one is always thinking about time and the concept that it is running.
There is no ‘time’ my dear where is it running, if there is anything real it is only here and now, but this concept of time has changed it all.
It has done more harm to human consciousness in many ways than it has derived benefits out of it.
And then,why so much emphasis on the element of ‘wait’, that one has to ‘wait’ till certain realization – so what. No big deal. In the process you are not wasting anything.
Scientist say the human being usually lives up to 10% of his consciousness.
So, one has no idea what one can do and to what extend and what pace, quality and even quantity while living from a state of pure consciousness. Waiting for it in terms of ‘relative time’ is not much of concern. And who’s stopping one to do action at any point of so called time, whatever others fellow travelers may say. In whatever action one wants to do – just do it and just add on one element to it – i.e. remembering that one has to use every action in that case as a parallel tool for a higher understanding of self. That is it.
This actually is one of the path, the path of action(nishkam karmyog), which probably can be your way.
Its not important that the path that worked for Partho, or that may work for Kultar or some mr.x would also work for you or me.
The one on a certain path would say certain things about his way with conviction, that is good. But good for him, not necessarily for any other.
So one can do any action that one finds relevant at any point of time if one feels like. Just there is a need to keenly observe and use it as i said for a deeper understanding of your self, and be able to see that who is acting till the action that happens is through the source of pure consciousness without any clouding whatsoever. One must understand it and trust it, till one’s knowing becomes one’s experience. And understanding and proceeding with that even state, even if by a few people is more than enough in terms of your concern in the areas where action is required. After all a few people have changed the world. Some certain number coming in contact with universal consciousness in this way will be able to have an effect on mankind as the case has been always since eternity.
Whoever does that can thentry and communicate in the ordinary way and have the whole affected in a positive way.
So.
Start with what is !
Without that we not only will have miseries, more wars, more destruction, more ego issues, more superficiality, more of disorder-ness, & disharmony as a reflection of our own disorder and disharmony.
The liberation from suffering comes from perceiving with your own mind your own true nature(by any means suitable to the individual) and true nature of the universe, and then manifesting this by this deep understanding of reality in our daily life. It is to be aware of one’s Being which functions in harmony with the universe. ommmen :- )))
This is all very interesting (though some parts did go over my head). Thanks for posting though.
I am just curious, how do you go from the discussion of these states of mind into the actual experience of these states of mind??
i’m loving the webcasts of Eckhart Tolle/Oprah’s “A new earth.” I hope you’ve checked those out. They are also conversations along the same wavelength.
hiiiii !!
could not open the link ! tell us about it here instead ?
Dear Shekhar,
Thanks a lot for posting the video and I hope you will post more of these in the future. I had the pleasure of hearing Deepak in Edmonton a few years back when he was touring for the “Spontaneous fulfillment of desire” book and I loved the entire talk about non-local correlation. I bought the ticket to the vip section and I was the only one with his laptop on and making notes as he talked. As the chopra center is very close where I live in NY I used to go there often to the yoga room – right next to where you shot this video, and loved the hatha yoga sessions in the evening and also to buy “Vata tea” for myself – which I am misisng right now.
I am quite a be liver of objectism so I tend to believe in reality, albeit in an ever changing one where our intentions and actions constantly attract into our lives what we constantly desire with detached intention. I believe that we all see reality in our own ways but I am sure that there is some reality that does exist even though our pre-programmed brains can’t see it.
Two quotes on duality:
As we raise our consciousness and activate our lightbody, we realize we are our own creators made, or making ourselves, in the image and similitude of the one Creator. Indeed, since in a hologram the part contains the whole, we are the one Creator. By learning this truly transformative lesson, we return to unity consciousness while mastering physicality. In other words, we achieve god-realization as the light of soul descends into a divine or soul body healed of duality and freed from the instructional cycle of karma.
Sol Luckman
Source: Conscious Healing: Book One on the Regenetics Method, Page: 147..148
Level 5 leaders are a study in duality: modest and willful, humble and fearless.
Jim Collins
Source: Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap… and Others Don’t, Page: 22
Best Regards,
Himanshu
Shekhar,
Sorry for earlier comment I was just miss browsing it…Finally I watched it…interesting talk. I would just say that “Realization of infinity is the beginning of creativity and creativity is not transitory but WE are…..!
LOVE!
Sanjay
What fun…this is some great conversation between you guys….Thanks for sharing it…however I do not feel that the realization that you are not the person you think you are…is a big realization…is it? The I am…keeps changing till you stop defining I guess…Will you stop defining at the speed of light? Sounds to me like the speed of light is as undefined as death.
When we die..what will we think….i lived 60-80yrs and did this n that and I died…nah..cannot be so shallow…the defining will be dropped I think.
do we get a glimpse of timelessness, formlessness..mass may not exist, but as energy we do? Does anything change? Its like the space ship…when you sit in it…for others you are someplace else in some other space time continum….but for you…you still need to shave…in death maybe you are gone for others…but for you..maybe you still need to work out some more answers to some other questions we cannot fathom now..
hello Shekhar,
Time is a state of mind it is either Now Here or Nowhere.
im a fellow traveler. I keep comin to ur blog n go thru some of ur interesting posts. I believe this is the right time to take a jump, the quantum leap.
Perhaps time is like a spiral. With each passing revolution you get closer to the center. Each passing revolution causes time to accelerate. In this fashion, time would speed up with each passing second. As you approach the end of the spiral (center).
Where im trying to connect is that we may not be in a spaceship traveling @ the speed of light but indeed our whole universe is speeding up and will gradually reach time wave zero.
A common phenomenon being felt around the world these days is that time is going too fast and speeding up as we go…
Our universe is ascending to a higher consciousness level so is our earth and the humans living on it. We are aligning to the cosmic center. But it is being said that our whole universe is vibrating at a much higher frequency than ever. Humanity is witnessing the phenomenon called “The Quickening.” Which is the effect of “Galactic Alignment” due in the year 2012.
It will be the biggest landmark in the history human consciousness; we are ascending to a higher dimension in consciousness.
There’s a lot of info on the web for people who are feeling the change.
Its Time to Wake Up………….NOWHERE.
Thanks, for sharing ur views.
Shekhar, that was a beautiful conversation. Dr Chopra explained things so well.Towards the end you mentioned this topic will make a good film!!
I think so too!! 🙂
Gopi
The conscience is not measurable and cannot proved by maths!!
I wonder if it can be measured and proved by maths in future!!
Is the next Einstein coming?
Is it going to be a mix of maths and spirituality??
Am i talking crap??
hey shekhar – r u still continuing co-writing the script on buddha with DC. just take out your heart and do it – m sure U will get another producer some day.
Dear Sanjay Malhotra:
Can you please tell how you fixed the problem? I have tried to open it with IE and Safari without any success.
I’ve come to this conversation after the flurry of it’s initial activity. This is the first time I have every participated in a blog. Thank you for the space you’ve created.
I too have enjoyed many conversations like the one shared with you and Deepok. I’m blown away by how our minds can take, as well as lead us through metaphysical, quantum physical and physical notions through matter. Our matter.
What I’ve discovered in my own explorations of these very serious and splendid queries is love. Through perhaps divine, certainly universal love, we ask ourselves what does it mean? How do I relate, receive, give my very best? How do I fit into this sublime orchestration, what is my instrument and how can I best play it in service to this divine symphony?
On the nature of illusion: In the past year or so I discovered that I had been very much living in a dualistic reality. One that of course still shows up in every moment possible when I’m not being conscious of my choice to see beyond it. I identified very much with the matter of my existence; the people, my belongings, my career work, my identity. At some point in the course of my many queries I discovered that underneath or beside it, whatever your perspective, is what matters. Today that is what guides me when I can get out of the way. The illusion component showed up in the solid nature of how I made my internal decisions. Things were either good or bad, light filled or shadowed, right or wrong, etc.
I also discovered that my mechanism, my body, houses all of it. Examples would be: that my thoughts were of course constant and in many cases preprogrammed from my total experience and usually tied to my fears. My emotions were tied to my thoughts and of course there was a myriad of dramas that my thoughts could use to justify my emotions. Living from this perspective only, stops the motion of creation. I couldn’t get beyond what I thought in living a more full and satisfying life. You’ve seen my CV. It’s amazing to me that I am only now appreciating what I have been creating, in life as in love.
Traveling beside this powerful combination lives my mind and its wisdom, seeing what’s true, constantly present to help shape my overview when I allow for it. I began to notice that I had feelings. Feelings seem distinct from emotions, since they apparently emerge when I am in a true experience, one in the moment, not one I’m creating in my head. They are not busy creating something, they are a part of the creation. I also seem to know when those feelings are guiding me because I can feel my heart literally communicating vibrations through those feelings, in a language uniquely tuned for me through my source. ( I used to take prescriptive drugs to stop these vibrations, fearing loss of control, I wanted to stop the motion.) This is the combination that I strive to stay connected with. Like in this moment as I share my heart with strangers, while feeling a little unqualified to have these tremendous ideas.
I don’t choose to let go of the thought emotion combo completely, for I need their talents to make a practical foundation for my dreams and visions. The more I can be in a real experience of my life, using the mind/feeling combo, the more I find my gratitude. I am greatly served through serving these notions. I am also more in-tuned with what’s real and what’s an illusion.
I submit even though it appears to be from another environment of duality, that the appearance of stopping the motion is the illusion Once we land in apparent certainty, we fail to see that the movement continues without our conscious acceptance. We loose the control, which isn’t ours to assert really, and we let go of love.
I’ve discovered the power of our hearts, the energy that propels us into these esoteric conversations, that brings up the frustrations and anger we experience when love is not fulfilled. For why else would we behave badly, if we weren’t yearning for our beloved. Our beloved lives within us as deeply as we believe it is embodied in another. These are our dreams, our attraction to the mystery, at once connection to ourselves and to the cosmos.
Our connections to and in love, demand that we show up as amazing. We can’t help ourselves, we are called. We find ourselves totally transformed through it’s mystery.
Scientist of all disciplines formulate and prove or show it’s existence through their search for truth, their love of the mystery. I feel certain that Einstein’s theories were inspired by his love of the amazing field of balance that the universe shows us. I am heartened by his ideas of relativity, for it means we enjoy an experience of grace. Knowing I enjoy the gifts of grace, allows me to keep steady on my journey of life, without giving up when I feel blocked.
Mystics and philosophers share other metaphysical notions in a softer context through how we relate to each other and our world through spirit dancing with our minds and hearts. We reinvent ourselves when we see that who we are presenting to ourselves, and to others, isn’t connecting in a way that we fundamentally know as true, especially since its really what we want.
I’m not saying that we merely change, I’m saying that we find a new vision and or vista, with news ways of being for how we can more fully engage and connect. Our human demonstration realized, in an already connected universe. We stand shining in its light, even as the shadow is continually stirring in us new conversations for our future questions.
I believe that this is where we find our love and our answers, traveling from one light point to another, while we tip toe through the shadow that is the means from which the unmanifested becomes manifest between those points. From these we experience more light and color, and its fractal nature in proportion to what looks like a whole. This is where we buy the round-trip ticket for the ride we’re on.
Shekhar, I’ve been very drawn to the story of Dante and Beatrice. The accounts of their connection certainly have been retold many times. Dante’s work of the Divina Comedia and La Vita Nuova embody much of what you and Deepok discussed, science aside. Certainly his story, their story is told and retold in film from the mundane romantic notions to the highly esoteric spiritual. You are very drawn to transformational stories and present them with great beauty and core understanding of what’s true. I can’t think of a better director and writer who can combine great love with divine providence, and who can discover beauty in balance within these important energies. I’m just a girl who certainly loves to live in the illusion of romance, and who also knows what’s true within it, and trusts it. So do you. This knowing of course is sourced in our hearts and minds, rather than just our thoughts and emotions on a good day. We are all greatly gifted by your ability and commitment to expanding our vision of our world and our universal connection, as we ever discover our similarity in our apparent difference. Thank you.
Dr.Deepak Chopra, and you Shekhar, two beautiful souls conversing to each other….anything and everything related to Deepak,facinates me and i’m in awe of Deepak as i’m in awe of you,shekar., n though during my youth i was busy pursuing career, making money,shelter, n did everything be it dabbling in creative pursuits to be self-reliant, i was unable to concentrate on”SynchroDestiny’, now that i’ve slowed down, searching answers for the purpose of existence,why i’ve come to this earth,et al. I could just admire you in the Digjam Suiting ad as n when i could hvae a glimpse of you, inthose nanoseconds just be happy that i could connect wid you..that’s all i could do….enjoyed your movies, your kind of filmmaking…now recently i never failed to miss the episodes of the talaent show just for you.I saw nothing except looking at you,.,,…well, i have hard copies filed wherever you and Deepak featured in the TOI. and all stuff relatedto Deepak’s column. I read all his books except the latest ones.Always wished i could volunteer some his progrums,