Ah yes, this one is going to get really acrimonius given what just happened in Norway. But Abdul has raised some questions of ‘awareness’ and prejudice. I hope for an informative healthy debate here without people hurling abuse at each other :
“Problems cannot be solved on the same level of awareness which created them – Einstein
A friend sent this quote to me, when I first read it; I could not understand it. I kept pondering my brains out for days but nothing came to me – Last night while watching a debate on European Muslims, it struck me and I would like to believe that I know what Einstein meant now.
Here is how it happened…
I came across a debate on youtube titled “Europe is failing its Muslims” organized by BBC between two very famous scholars – Tariq Ramadan and Douglas Murray – I was hoping to get some valuable insight – but I was very much disappointed. The debate had ended before it even started.
Muslim Scholar Tariq Ramadan (Born & Raised in Sweden) is asked to step on podium to highlight his agenda – He makes introductory remarks, points out the problems Muslims are facing in West and concludes “Europe has failed its Muslims”.
Now, The British Scholar, Douglas Murray steps on podium talks about the violence and terrorism imposed on west by Islam, and ends his conversation by saying “Europe has not failed its Muslims, Its Muslims who has failed Europe”
This is when it struck me… I did more research found a few more relevant debates. But the results were same – HUGE DISSAPOINTMENT.
After listening to a few more scholars on various other topics – I came to realize that most of them have gained wisdom through their knowledge, which gives them slightly different and broader understanding of the worldly issues than an ordinary man (Someone with no or lesser knowledge). They have the knowledge, they have the wisdom, they even have broader understanding of the issues and problems, BUT what almost all of them are missing is HIGHER LEVEL OF AWARENESS. Intellectually they are slightly at the higher end of the pyramid (due to their knowledge). But when it comes to dealing with personal prejudices they are at the same level as any other human being, which is at the bottom ends of the pyramid. (People like Buddha, Einstein, Gandhi, Tao and Lao are an exception)
Now coming back to debate “Europe is failing its Muslims “both the scholars were very sharp and well informed. They had raised some really good questions too. But sadly, they both had one-sided view, their research and view point were partial and biased. They were victim of their own prejudices, so were the audience. Which did not help anyone, instead had drawn more lines.
Only if they had higher level of awareness, they would have been able to understand each other. Only then, instead of quoting “Muslims have failed Europe” or “Europe has failed its Muslims. They would have concluded; “We have failed each other” and that would have been an interesting debate.
Their knowledge and partial wisdom did entertained audience. It also won them appreciation and applauses… but the missing element of AWARENESS, higher, than at which the whole problem was created, failed to engage audience in a meaningful and constructive debate.
We live in a society that is too complex and too dependent on knowledge to guarantee us a social acceptance. Sadly, Knowledge can be perceived in either ways, each of us can create our own version of reality depending on what we want to believe, or how big one’s ego is.
Same thing is happening in our part of the world. When it comes to problems between Pakistan & India, Hiduisam & Islam, our partial and biased understanding mixed with personal prejudices blind folds our intelligence, which keeps the light of awareness from reaching us
Gandhi Jee once said; if you want to change the world Change yourself first (Be the change you want to see in the world)… what did he meant by it? What change he had suggested? How does he want us to change?…. Could it be a change of perception?
Abdul Munim
A 29 years old Pakistani by birth, Muslim by religion, Chinese by profession (Studied & working in China)… And a proud Indian by ethnicity.”
This makes sense but it isn’t new or a radically different perspective. I was hoping for a better reading than this.
We all are victim of knowledge. We think by knowing more we may be able to solve problems. But in my view knowing more is creating more problems. Same event occurring today, 10 years back or 100 years back would have different barring on our minds because of news outlets and/or our hunger to know more, which in turn reflects in our reactions.
If Norway incident would have happened 10 years back we would have read it in next day news papers and moved on, if it would have happened 100 years back we would have studied it in our history books after few years. Now we react instantly knowingly/unknowingly and not only that, we react strongly for every other thing.
It’s high time we all sit back, take nature it’s course and hopefully can see things without any bias ( not only religious bias but also regional, cultural and all others)
Great Work Bro, Very Proud of you. Please continue and don’t shy away from penning your thoughts…
Mahatma Gandhi said, “You must be the change you wish to see in the world”.
I think : You live life, you see the world through your eyes like it is and you wish it to be it a better place
you inherit the wish for a change for the good because you see the reality and understand the inequality
( made by humans)
From birth all humans are equal, in front of death all are equal.
The way you can make a chance is to believe in yourself, to have trust and to start consequently with yourself first
To be the chance
Enlightening..!!
no acrimony here. just a tender offering & silent introspection
http://goo.gl/opWKc
Being a Muslim is a failure in itself. Brain-washing yourself with primitive jargon, deluded ideas about an external God and fanatic belief systems based on control and expansionism are failures in themselves.
Being a European is not much different either, cause it floats more or less along the same lines, just the other side of the coin.
It is not about Europe failing Muslims or the other way around..it is belief systems failing each other. Primates have to eventually evolve into non-duality. Such debates and arguments are useless, and only fodder for media and mind games. To blame a being between beings you will have to regress through all lifetimes to the source..no can do!!
@Kavita
Thank you Kavita, Thanks for sharing the link.
Lets pray for God’s strenght for families and friends, and May the victim’s souls rest in peace.
Being a human being called chakra or brahmasthra is a failure for all humanity.
I have received a few emails in which people have questioned my (Indian) ethnicity.
Well, I won’t go into details explaining what ecthnicity means. All i can say is, lets just put the political crape on side for a while….If you see it in historical context you will find that “I am as much of an Indian (etchnically) as any Indian passport holder is.
DO YOU KNOW….
Illama Iqbal: Sare Jahaan Say Acha Hindustaan Hamara was written by National Poet of Pakistan, Sufisam: A mystical dimension of Islam is a fusion of Hindu & Islamic Beliefs.
Bulleh Shah: Born in present day Pakistan before indepedance – Is he an Indian Or Pakistani?
Heer Ranjha: warish shah was born in Kasur – Is heer ranjha a Pakistani folk story Or an Indian folk story?
Indus Valley Civilization: also know as Bronze age civilization is one of the world’s earliest urban civilizations, along with its contemporaries, Mesopotamia and Ancient Egypt. It Flourished around the Indus River basin and Matured into Harapan cvilization (Harapa is also in Pakistan) – Is Indus Valley Civilization an Indian civilization Or Pakistani civilization? .. Sure Indian..
I can go on and on…… I think i have made my point.
Hi Ariana!!! long time no see……were u kinda busy trying 2 start ur pet project?!……something like “bluffingtonposts.blogspot.com”
PS: u mis-spelt my Agraj’s name, why try ancient literature like Sanskrit, Hebrew etc. when u can conveniently brag in ur native tongue?!
I am so very glad that u have at-least acknowledged my state of human beingness 🙂
It is unfortunate that our societies have developed and preserved religion as static belief systems. Systems that do not change at the same pace that humans change. And so it is ironic that religion hampers the progress of the human being created by the very god proclaimed by these religions. Religion has less to do with spirituality and the reflections around the human condition and is all about exerting power over groups of people. Religion ultimately divides rather than unites.
Norwegian society will have to take the time to reflect on what created the monster that turned so vehemently against a society that is so open and built on trust. A trust that enabled this killer to walk around freely, to avail of all the benefits of a generous society. Some countries have called this freedom and attitude naïve, and while there may be a certain element of naïvety, I consider it a privilege to live in an open, egalitarian society that drives values of diversity and inclusion. It may be that Norwegian society can afford that luxury being a small country (4,9M), but that does not mean other societies cannot adapt.
One thing that struck me after moving to Oslo from Mumbai 25 years ago, was the level of citizen involvement in matters of local society and governance. Later, as I better understood the nature of the practice of local democracy, I could see how participation in society drives welfare. A system that encourages people to live where they are and grant them almost the same benefits regardless of where one lives. This is impressive given the small population and large territory. I wish I grew up in a society that advocated a sense of participation in local governance. In Mumbai, I grew up to expect that politics was a dirty business and something to stay away from. Local participation encourages youngsters across the political spectrum to debate on matters ranging from chocies in school and sport to matters of transportation, energy grids to matters of foreign affairs. When I was asked about the political system in India or the different forms of local government, it was humiliating to realize how little I knew. What I learned in Civics class was forgotten once I was done with the exams.
My point (finally) — active participation in matters of society is the ultimate demonstration of the viability of religious teachings. Without this participation, religious practices are just rituals done to feed the frenzy of the power hungry clergy. Since no one has come back from the dead, it is always easy to preach “eternal life”, “paradise” or “reincarnation” as a means for “pay now, receive later”. Religion is unfortunately used as a means to exert power on people who are either illiterate and/or not willing to challenge the “learned” clergyman. One can be spiritual and appreciate the wonder of creation without having to use organized religion as a crutch. Get involved and participate and then ones belief systems becomes more meaningful.
Shekhar, the entertainment industry has an important powerful role to play here. I’d like to hear your thoughts.
Sir,
What a profound article, indeed. I had come across this Einstein quote but never understood its actual meaning. Now I am enlightened 🙂 I would like to share a short film I made recently called – Musafir hoon…Journey of India – Post independence. The five minute short film narrates three stories in parallel. Here’s the link to Musafir hoon…:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEO_OT5ovnA
Regards
Prakash Gowda
Vadodara, Gujarat
Very well said Abdul! I personally dont care what ones’ religious beliefs are.
But less eveloved people will not get the message.
chakra, I left you a message in the post titled anger, where you once again opened your mouth and proved to the world how foolish and stupid you are!!
Stop embarraing yoruself and I suggest maybe try some meditation to raise your kundalini or some mantra chanting to make you a better person.
If that doesn’t work, well you can always STFU!!
Have a nice day!!
Who is this author?
Before he can pose that question, he should write an analysis on two Important questions :
I know he will wriggle out of it and apologists will cover his ass , but these questions must be answered, if there is any honesty in the author of this Blog.
1) Is and has Pakistan failed its Hindus ? They formed 30% of the 1947 population, now they are 1%.
2) Has any Islamic cuntry evernot failed its relugious Minorities?
Let us see how the author, if he can resond to these questions honestly at all, wriggles out this?
Other apologists, welcome to contribute too 😉
Islam and Christianity should be classified as Mental Diseases, and the pharmaceutical companies would do well to R&D some effective medication for the same.
The author of this article says:
Abdul Munim
A 29 years old Pakistani by birth, Muslim by religion, Chinese by profession (Studied & working in China)…
– wow, that’s the worst biodata ever
And a proud Indian by ethnicity.
– ok, some compensation there 🙂
Ariana,
How are you doing dear? 😉
@ Abdul Munim :
Indus ( Sindhu, which Islamic Jihadists of the 12th Century called Hindu ) which lends its name to India is and was always a part of India , so is the Indus valley – Pakistan is a modern creation that has its identity and roots fixed in India.
So the issue has always been for Pakistan to create , manufacture , invent a seperate identity and twisted Historical facts – with a horribly wrong consequences.
The British played their part – dividing India on religious lines – first in example was in 1905 , when Lord Curzon the Viceroy divided Bengal – which was one common region with shared values , mixed up religious identities.
Similarly , Punjab – which was the seat of Raja Ranjit Singh , based in Lahore , who fought 3 big wars against the British Scum. They wanted thier own back – and helped by a readily available religious conflict , between Native Indian Religion and Culture and the Invading , Desctructive Inslamic Culture , they were able to re-open the wounds and find the Agents – Jinnah ( a very Un Islamic Lawyer ) and Nehru ( a very Un Hindu Pundit ).
Pakistan’s ancestry is India – unless Pakistan and its people come to terms with Truth – that their ancestors were Hindus and that Culture is different from Religion , there is no alternative but a conflict that will boil over at some point in the future.
Pakistan was carved and created by the Western Powers , Supported by China in recent times – but the World is never static , and who knows what the map of the world will look like in 2025 or 2050 ? or 2100 ?
‘Breaking India’ by Rajiv Malhotra and Aravindan Neelakantan — An essential reading for every patriotic Indian and all those who love India…and for all those who are open to entertaining a view that sheds light on institutionalized, global divisive forces whose operations, mission and intentions go beyond ‘missionary’, ‘humanitarian’ concerns. To break India.
If not for anything, it may help an enquiring mind connect the dots…
http://www.breakingindia.com/
Rudra,
Good question and you are right, most hindus left pakistan,(shekhar and lots of bollywood families included).
Have you ever read about the crusades in the middle ages?
The vatican sanctioned killing of thousands of muslims wome, children, and men, every few years for a couple of centuries
Point is yes, people take religion twist it to thier own politcal agenda and run.
Every religion advocates peace but nobody follows it.
Just 14 years ago, hindu extremist, locked a christian missionary and his two innocent 6-7 year old boys and lit the Van on fire, while the children screamed to death.
Is that santana dharam? NO!! not at all.
We as intelligent people, need to understand that and an eye for an eye will end up with the whole world blind.
answer me this how may muslim friends do you have?
Do you make friends based on religion or common interests and likes?
Peace
Ariana
In my humble opinion I think the root cause of the problem is with the religion ISLAM..
Mr. Munim pls refer to this link to study the root cause of problems which are caused by the “culture” of islam.. i hope the world realises the failure of religions and begin to see light in what ancient indian culture has always espoused.. live and let live.. and never enforce ones way of life (islamist or other religions) on others..
http://www.studytoanswer.net/islam_myths.html
P.S : I am not for any other “religion” but thought I’d present this url for all to take a look and understand the underlying ethos and thinking of islam and why you find more fundamentalists and problems with ppl of this particular faith today… not to say that christianity hasnt suffered a similar pattern.. but atleast its not explicitly expounded in the “bible.”
@ brahmastra my message dated August 8 is for you too. See above
Cheers
Great bro. don’t feel shy.
Kavitha,
That looks like an excellent read. It should be included in the academic curriculum.
That is exactly what Sonia Maino and her paid goons want. She is not an Indian at heart, just here to make some quick cash while stigmatizing Hinduism and spreading disharmony and division amongst the masses. Divide and Conquer reprise..a “red” carpet for a Chinese takeover.
Ariana,
Cheers? What are you drinking? If it’s absinthe, then I want some.
Brahms
you are an A**, there is no just other way to describe it.
As for what am I drinking…Ganga Jal..Cheers.
Oh and please stop with your stupidity..you are embarrasing nobody but yourself.
Its sad that people like you live and breather while innocent kids die of hunger..kalyug
Have a nice day!
Ariana, sold your soul to the McDonalds combination meal have ya? Again, you are resorting to vain personal attacks instead of indulging in an intelligent debate.
BTW, thousands of people on the Ramlila ground wearing ‘I am Anna’ caps, and in a distance, tied to a pole, stands an A** with the cap ‘I am Ariana’..he’s not fasting though
Brahmasthra
🙂 Oh its thrilling to tear open your false veils of superiority, what happened to raising your kundalini and ahimsa and rising above…Brahms…you are an A**..chant OM….101 times before you speak.
As for Mcdonalds, they thrive on fools like you.
Oh and please if English is not your first language, speak in Hindi or sanskrit? Or do you not know sanskrit? Oh you sold your soul (whatever was left) to The English sahibs in order to get a job, did ya, did ya ya punk?
Have a nice day.
@ brahsm here is the other deal, you accuse me of attacking you, yet you and your trolls chakra etc..attack people personally based on religion, race etc..without a smidgen of intelliegence.
Intelligent debate is for intelligent people, not for fools.
I dont intend to waste time debating with Monkeys with double digit IQ’s who think they are right, and everybody else if wrong.
you are welcome to your opinions, wrong as they are..
PS:Om shanti
AriAnna = Not Anna
We are attacking belief systems, not people. Religions are poision, especially when they are crafted around external copyrighted Gods and egotistic commandments.
“That in whom reside all beings and who reside in all beings, who is the giver of grace to all, the Supreme Soul of the universe, the limitless being–I am That.”
Amritbindu Upanishad
“That which permeates all, which nothing transcends and which, like the universal space around us, fills everything completely from within and without,
that Supreme non-dual Brahman –that thou are.”
Shankara
These are the eternal teachings of truth, any other beliefs have to be destroyed to dawn a new age. You are neck deep in your shallow conditioning and ideas about religion and races to understand such simplicity.
Wow..how you contradict yourself. If the Divine resides in all beings, who in the world are you to attack anybodys beliefs? Thats not what the vedas preach. So your point is moot.
And yes I am not Anna and dont claim to be, neither do I claim to be a pompous know it all,in your face,righteous brahma.
Om Shanti
Ariana,
The divinity in many is shadowed by belief systems. Some of these belief systems take you far far away from the truth and aim to extrovert the mind. In simple terms, people are out of touch with themselves. A universal Vedic society based on simple teachings as mentioned in my previous post is the real solution, if you need one, for this world going ahead.
Brahmastra ,
You are wasting your time on concieted low class souls like AriAnna. Let them wallow – this person AriAnna( not sure man or woman , could be half way) is noise – not worth debating with people who indulge in twisting facts , seeing things with jaundiced eyes – apart from being apologists for barbarian religions -they are conditioned by political correctness and not truth seeking. I’d say forget them.
If you saw one of my previous posts , I mentioned how in 1947 after partition , there were 30% Hindus left over in Pakistan , but how a combination of Terror , Forcible conversions , Seperate electorate systems , Hudood Laws , have either exterminated or converted native Hindus of Pakistan – same with Bangladesh , where even today ( not to speak of Haulocaust like murders during 1971 of Hindus) , Hindus suffer many privations in so-called theocratic , Islamic states. But what does this Buffoon AriAnna have to say – nothing of any value.
I liked the two statements from the Upanishads. English language translations are horrible many times , when they try to subtitute Hoary and Sublime Samskrit words. It is a travesty that many ‘educated’ Indians not only have forgotten their cultural roots , those that want to have to discover their heritage through a foriegn , incompetent language like English.
There is absolutely no doubt that she is yearning for the Sanathan Dharma to be established globally ASAP 🙂
I have a feeling all your three idiots are the same fool!!
Firstly you think you are better than everybody else? calling people low class? you are nothing but a brown skinned chamar. How do you like them apples ?
Secondly if you were truly oh so enlightened, you wouldn’t stoop to the level you are, which proves beyond a doubtyou are an inferior, wanna be.
thirdly, maybe I am like vishnu male and female. wasn’t he shemale in one of his avatars?
And if yourgreat culture is so divine, shouldnt you be chanting and speaking sanskrit and meditating instead of attacking people on the veils on anonymity like cowards?
LOL..oh boy you are more fun than a pack of crazy, drunk monkeys.
Thanks for entertaining me and proving to the world why people who are intolerant and fanatics
should have no place in a civilized society.
and you are nothing but a keyboard commando, face to face, you would be shivering like the short, scrawny fool you are
you three fools aka split personality idiots may want to read Omprakask Valmiki’s -“joothan”
to get an idea to what it’s like to actually live in Hindu society, under the caste system.
How distorted it is and no better than the british havings signs”Indians and Dogs not allowed”
Wake up and smell the poop lying in front of you, fool.
I do not ignore the fact that a great wrong has been commited bu religious bigots, in the past whether they were islam, christians, jews or hindus.
Many hindus were convereted or killed. Thousands of buddhists were killed @ Nalanda university.
Millions of muslims and hindus died during the partition. Millions of jews were killed in the holocaust. Millions of Indians were used as slaves byt the british in Jamaica,Trinidad, tobago.
Truth is people like you and me commit these crimes. Just like you think hindusism is the best, there is a moron somewhere thinking christianity will save or an idiot somewhere thinking Islam is the best.
I have no use for religion or religious bigots. Period.
Go take a hike.
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