Anna Hazare : Is political power to the Civil Society a threat to Democracy ?

There is debate raging, or perhaps more than debate -a revolution -seething in India that could redefine the relationship between a People and it’s democratically elected Parliament and Government.

Does Power once given to the elected Government and Parliament for it’s term ( in India 5 years) effectively take all Power away from the Citizens of India over governance for that period ?  The movement led by Anna Hazare who is on a hunger strike right now to institute his version of a long standing bill in Parliament that will put a Civil Society watchdog over the workings of the Parliament has caught the imagination, and huge support amongst the aspirational and educated class in India.  A class that has so far been content to be part of the great hope of better standards of living through economic growth. A class that is often accused of not even voting, is now coming out in droves on the streets to be heard. (and since I wrote this 15 hours ago, massive sections of India’s population from all classes have joined the movements on the streets)

To be heard against what they see as the greatest cancer that exists in India.  One that is not only unfair, unjust, illegal, but patently immoral. The cancer of corruption. While the Government and the economists tout growth rates in the economy as a show of success, the people feel that those in the Political Class and others with access to the political class have unfairly usurped a far far larger share of the potential growth in India.  Not only that, they have, under the watch and encouragement of the Political Classes, stolen huge wealth in terms of mineral resources and public money from India for themselves.  A large share of which goes back to the Political Classes and so the cycle continues.

The Government has been caught off guard.  Not used to being challenged like this by the people who it thought politically uncommitted.  Already facing an armed insurrection by the so called rural ‘maoists’ in rural and tribal areas. The so called ‘Middle Class’ is considered in any democracy the biggest supporters of stability. Ones who will not  shut shop to take to the streets. Simply because they have too much to loose through disruptions.

Well, they have.  And a Government is floundering.

While the Opposition has chosen to actively support the movement, it seems just a ploy to flog the current Government. It remains to be seen what teeth  the Civil Society bill called the Jan LokPal Bill the opposition will finally vote for too.  Are they willing to curtail themselves if they form the Government ?

Ask any Indian what the greatest problem they have faced all their lives, and will continue to fact all their lives, and they will say that one word ‘Corruption”. It touches us all on a day to day, sometimes hour to hour basis.  We have learnt to live with, and more dangerously, accept it as part of our culture.  We have learnt to condone it and many see it as their only way to economic success.

But very high profile cases within the Government in power, assuming mind boggling numbers in a Nation where half of the population lives below the poverty lines staggered the nation and caused huge outcry.  Not only because of the scale of corruption. But because the sheer arrogance with which the Political Classes in collusion with their associates have been looting the country.

Has the Political class in India become so arrogant in its assumption of Power that it sees itself as unquestionable and above the law ?  Have the assumed checks and balances within a Parliamentary broken down ?  Is the Political class as a whole corrupt ? Why is the greatest (and public)  defence of the Government in Power against charges of corruption from the Opposition ” YOU DID IT TOO !”

There is a serious loss of faith in the Political System amongst the people. That is very very dangerous.  Not just from the dispossessed, but from the educated, not just the jobless but from those that have taken leave from their jobs to join the mass protest.

Is this the begininngs of the break down of the Democratic System as many suggest ?

I would argue that it is not. I would argue that this is an evolution in Democracy.

The Indian Democratic System was adapted from it’s former colonial masters, into a brilliant but adaptive Constitution.  But the system installed to support the fundamentals of the Constitution were designed for India’s population at time of Independence. A mere 350 million.  For a demographic far far older than we are now. No one at that time could have dreamt of a nation of 1.2 Billion people with 60 % of the population below 25. Soon India will hold 15% of the world’s teenage population.  India’s Political, Social, Judicial systems could not have predicted a a young, aspirational, entrepreneurial, technologically adept population we have today. They could not have predicted that at the end of each 5 year political term, the world would be barely recognizable.

India’s endemic corruption is not a cultural imperative.  It is the result of a slow, unresponsive, antiquated system that is at odds with challenges of Modernity. A system protected by those that are personally benefiting from it at the cost of the aspirations of the People of India.  Forgetting that the first words of the Indian Constitution are not ‘WE THE GOVERNMENT’ or ‘WE THE PARLIAMENT’,  but :

‘WE THE PEOPLE OF INDIA’

I support Anna Hazare and a strong version of the Jan Lokpal Bill provided that in its execution it does not become as squeaky as a massive old door that consistently need to be oiled and pushed to make it budge as many of the rest of Indian systems.

The Principles of Democracy are not changeable. But the systems supporting them must be willing to change and adapt.

194 Responses to “Anna Hazare : Is political power to the Civil Society a threat to Democracy ?”

  1. satish chandra says:

    Dear Shekhar
    We could have never imagined that at a point of time when citizen will demand a law against corruption the MPs and government will behave in this way and the common people will have to go to this length to prove its point of view. See how they behaved. For last 40 years they could not pass the anti corruption bill. In April they promised to pass a bill by 15th august and they could not get it passed even their promotion of the corruption bill. Now when the civil society went to standing committee there was no information that he is going to make any changes according to make it a strong lokpal bill. NOW IT IS VERY MUCH CLEAR THAT THERE IS CLEAR CUT CASE OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN CURBING THIS TYPE OF CORRUPTION AND AND PARLIAMENT IS NOT GOING TO PASS A STRONG LOKPAL BILL. THIS PARLIAMENT DOES NOT HONOUR THE WISHES OF THE PEOPLE OF INDIA.

  2. Nanda Ni says:

    My dear friend Mr.Vivek did a wonderful homework. Commendable but that’s why we are talking about election reforms. We need badly strong election reforms.

    After the ex-election commissioner Mr.T.N.Seshan introduced many reforms elections in India have changed drastically for better.
    Still every election we get to see something better. We’ve unanimously congratulated the then election commissioner of Bihar when Laluji’s party was voted out to power. It’s not all dark. It’s just that this is a vast country and there are many short comings. We are trying. We must try harder. We must make stringent laws and see that no criminal can enter or continue to be a people’s representative.

    But that doesn’t mean we replace democracy with Civil Society Members. Bills will be drafted in Ramlila Maidan. Sorry! Civil Society Members however great n honest they are, they DO NOT represent the people. If they want let them contest elections and start representing us in a proper channel. If they r so influential and if they can be trusted, let them contest elections and win.
    But this isn’t the way. Violating rules and taking things into our hands, is that what must be expected of and appreciated of an ex-Police Officer, a practicing lawyer?

    Mr.Tarun Kripalani here above questioned, “Is a society which is civilised danger to democracy?”
    Let me answer it. If members of civil society start violating the fundamentals of the same civilized society then they become a great threat.

    I cannot trust a small group which doesn’t represent me, if it wants to draft a bill. As I wrote in my earlier comment. Parliament represents ALL the places in the country, EVERY CITY, EVERY TOWN, EVERY VILLAGE. It represents ALL the sections of our society. The chances of omitting the interests of a place or section of people will be less if it is drafted in the parliament, which might be easily overlooked by a small group.

    Violating the rules and regulations, not willing to follow the constitution of India, is, I beleive, the extreme form of Corruption. Let’s not violate our constituion in our anxiety to remove corruption.
    We also will be wrong in doing it.

  3. Saurabh Thapliyal says:

    These r exceptional times which require exceptional measures.I am realy fed up with Media houses taking sides on this issue. They should nly be reporting nd nothing else.On 1 hand Times now nly suportin Anna movement nd othr side NDTV nd CNN IBN making 200% attemp to make it look like a threat to democracy. This is the churning which ws bound to happn and its happning for good. And i am so happy nd proud of our ppl(espacialy young ones) for making thr point shown to gov so pecfly.
    Now i admire gandhi ji even more bcs nt only he gave us independence bt also showd us a path which ws so pecfl. Three cheers for gandhi ji and grt work done by Anna ji.
    Being corrupt ws fashion before anna ji bt nw good ppl can also survive wit respect.

  4. Alok says:

    I think one must not give too much of importance to Arundhati…she is inconsequential and thrives on these opportunities…..she takes a contrarian view and thus plays to the gallery…..writing as some one mentioned her in the context of the bill…….[;s use ur brains rather than relying on what that woman thinks….she is a bloody #$%^& ,….

  5. Ashish Trivedi says:

    What is JAN-LOK-PAL bill ?
    How many people knows this ?
    What is the difficulty (stand) of govt. ?
    More then 80% people doesn’t know the fact.
    everyone is just following the word

    “corruption”

    ANNA NE DUKHTI RAG PAR HAATH RAKHA HAI.
    Corruption is not a simple word which we can erase by simply coming on road or passing some bill as rule, we break rules every day we are the person who makes the way to break the rule before it comes in existence.
    We have to be strong we have to accept that we Individual can bring the change;
    we don’t need the mob for any change in our life,
    It was our choice to be corrupt and this is also we have to choose not to be.
    ANNA has started It’s now our turn to choose our way to denounce.

    START SAYING NO TO CORRUPTION (YOURSELVES).

  6. mangesh says:

    Change is coming , slowly slowly it will come to many countries.Now it’s India’s game.
    In last 10 years media+social network+communication growth was exponential.
    Knowledge(Google) is easily available.Globalization is the part of Educated India.Education generated awareness 50 years back and it started giving Fruits slowly slowly.Overall IQ and EQ is improved.
    India’s Strong family values plus ethical values and education with hard work made a Hugh change and created a Big thinking group and with such group “Democracy” will always exists in India.
    It’s hard earn money , Nature will give proper justice. Intelligence is the key force which exists in nature.
    What I think, Ramdev Baba’s arrest had given confidence to UPA to arrest Anna and that was their big mistake and revolution started quickly. So there is a meaning for Ramdev baba’s arrest also.Everything is having meaning because of Nature’s intelligence.
    Now things will change and new era will come , With the Fight for best only ~best will happened and It will continue till someone again starts putting efforts for worst. Everywhere Physics exists with maths we can evaluate more accurately and with spirituality we can understand it deeply.

  7. Sachin Nikam says:

    I support a stronger Lokpal but the road to salvation lies in having less bureaucracy and rules. What if Lokpal also becomes another bureaucratic nightmare.

  8. shukla_harish says:

    वेल सैड बाय सतीश चन्द्र.यह सरकार पिछले ४२ वर्ष से प्रजा को गुमराह कर रही हे .उनके इरादे शशक्त लोकपाल बिल लाने में नहीं हे. वे अपना बिल १ दिन में ‘एक जुट’ होकर पास कर लेंगे.राष्ट्र के हित की बात होगी तो नहीं करेंगे.

  9. Gautam says:

    Most of leaders are corrupt. how can possible to pass lokpal bill. 40 years is very less time to pass lokpal bill for them. how many years to take pass the lokpal bill. civil society is not needed to force the pass lokpal bill if our leader are honest to pass the lokpal bill. they dont want to pass lokpal bill because they are involve in corruption.very simple to understand.

  10. Nanda Ni says:

    Country has witnessed so many fasts lately and most of which are just to create a hype. And a good number of these are indeed done unnecessarily.

    Because there is a lot of competetion, may be cut-throat even among leaders, whether political or not.

    Establishment isn’t working properly, sure. And there is no way one is going to say Anna Hazare’s idea of doing something to get rid of corruption and make the establishment work is wrong.
    But it’s not just the goal but the means, the path we take is, perhaps more important.

    Irrespective of goal, strategically creating a hype and then saying things like…
    * Govt MUST listen to me,
    * I’m not going to compromise.
    * I’m not concerned with what others have to say.
    * I’m not concerned with security matters, problems of police department.

    And Then demanding “My bill alone MUST be presented and MUST be passed before a date, which I shall give.”
    This type of attitude shouldn’t be encouraged and in fact it doesn’t help the society.”

    It happened many times, even in the recent past that many agitations, rallies, processions, fasts have been denied permission by the state police. People approach the court and get the permission granted well in advance and court issues proper security instructions to both the parties.
    Doesn’t Anna’s panel containing Lawyers and an ex-Police Officer know these procedures?
    Wantedly they planned this protest without permission to actually create the hype.

    Now put Govt under pressure and get things done at our terms not listening to others is Blackmail.

    LokPal is a sensitive issue. And Governments have been wasting time for over 40 years now. It includes even BJP Govt. It includes Governments of various PMs. U can’t convict just this Govt.
    And just because decades of time has been wasted you can’t ask them to cover it up in one week or one month. This is not a University exam. There aren’t any important questions here. There aren’t any shortcuts. Each clause must be discussed in detail, for its immediate and longterm implications. This takes time and energy, and considering the fact that the more voices are welcomed, the better legislation we can get.

    We must be patient. We can insist government must start working and work incessantly on LokPal but at the same time we can’t a) draft the bill, b) give DEADLINES.

    Anna went wrong in:
    a) arousing public sentiment
    b) forcing his draft
    c) giving deadline
    d) in the process creating a bad impression internationally.
    e) comparing this to FREEDOM STRUGGLE.

    And here we don’t have any Mahatmas, Mr.Prashant Bhushan is behind it because his father presented the bill way back many years ago. Ms.Kiran Bedi is having her own row with the Govt. Anna and Baba Ramdev want to become leaders instantly. Everybody is having their own hidden agenda.
    All this shouldn’t force Govt to take a hasty decision.

    Government must act and do something to protect the interests of the nation from such Fashion-Fasting Blackmail.

  11. brahmastra says:

    In-your-face article for all the arm-chair critics and pseudo-intellectuals:

    http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/fasting-for-anna-barefoot-farmer-pulls-cart-400-km-to-mumbai-128352

    The rural masses who are struggling for their survival definitely want Anna to force his bill to bring about the changes that they so desperately need. The upper classes who do not have to think about their next meal have the luxury to engage in meaningless debates.
    The gadzillion dollars that Sonia Maino, Manmohan, Sharad Pawar, loongi-poser Chidambaram, Sheila Dixit and her anti-indian cartel have stashed in their swiss accounts is the money that belongs to these people. The UPA is very secular when it comes to stealing money from all communities.

  12. sharadbarot says:

    request to give email id of smt kiran bedi or shr arvind kejarwal

  13. Gaurav Sharma says:

    today anna is fighting for we people and i pray for his and our success so that we can live peacefully in our country and every body should know our values.
    we should know the reason to live in our motherland so that we can make aware our new genration .
    i would like to say thanks Aana for awaking us i wish to god for our success and your health…….

  14. Nanda Ni says:

    Mr.Brahmastra,

    Masses joining Anna’s movement is a gesture of protesting against corruption; Which the so-called pseudo-intellectuals, I take it I’m NOT included, do appreciate. But that doesn’t mean they know anything about the detailed implications of the bill. This requires expertise knowledge in Law and Legal procedures, full understanding of how Legislature and Executive and Judiciary work.

    Funny, out of the thousand things discussed day-in and day-out on NDTV, you could notice ‘THIS’?

    People supporting this Anna Man r being emotional than being objective.
    I mean, Let’s not believe the Govt, but how can we ignore something so many intellectuals are saying? How can’t we listen to what the othre group of Civil Society Intellectuals has got to say?

    Are we going to blindly follow what a group of people with obvious hidden agendas and this obsessed, arrogant, prejudiced and emotionally charged, insane person is telling us?

    Now those who want to contact Dr.Kiran Bedi can reach her on twitter, just tweet ‘@thekiranbedi’

  15. i am anna says:

    Anna Hazare should perhaps be open to some changes to his Lokpal proposal, such as agreeing to keep the judiciary out of the ambit of the anti-corruption agency. “Nobody’s perfect, including Anna,” he said. “Maybe our view is somewhat myopic, but we definitely want a strong Lokpal.”
    To Support Anna Hazare
    Please like this Anna Hazare fan facebook page http://www.facebook.com/bizzduniya

  16. Kiran says:

    One old man (hero) is fighting we r all just giving comments come on young India let all join anna come on

  17. Nanda Ni says:

    I’d like to tell people like Mr.Brahmastra, that we might suspect our politicians that they might be having swiss accounts. But we can’t go a head and make a list of our own, brewing the list in our imagination from nowhere. Next time if he does this mistake and gets caught it might amount to crime and he might be charged for deformation.
    Also I’d like to remind him that calling Mr.Chidambaram a “loongi-poser” amounts to racism, because he is insulting the attire of a section of people in our country.
    Let us please learn to respect the ways, customs, attire and languages of other states in India, before We ourselves POSE to be the soldiers of a great movement.

    P.S. Even each of the the so-called regional languages is one of the 14 OFFICIAL languages, official in each of the respective linguistic state AS PER THE CONSTITUTION of India.

  18. VIVEK JAIN says:

    With great respect to all the work being done by Annaji and his team and several other politicians, bureaucrats, citizens, on a different one and with due regards, I wish to suggest that, while a strong anti-corruption law is good, but already there are no many laws which, often are abused than used.

    My concept to fight corruption is not a one-time affair, rather a progressive and continuing one. I feel that people want to fight against corruption, that is brewed every part and place, but don’t have the way out of it, as lodging complaints in the current setup, in itself is tedious and long drawn. The punitive manner of cleaning out corruption may be tough and will be resisted by everyone consciously, as none would ever be able to confess his/her wrong doing/s, if any.

    If we are to acknowledge that indeed there is corruption in every part and aspect, then means has to be different – one in the form of reformative in nature and progressive, rather than punitive.

    First task would be to stop flow of unaccounted money, which leads to corruption. My understanding, (even if assumed to immature – due to lack of proper statistics from Government agencies) based on the general impression of society, is that existing tax payers are the only ones who bear the brunt of stringent anti-tax evasion laws, while those on the lose, who have never ever paid, if caught, get off in one time settlement concept, utilizing legal structure, schemes provided, etc, and are seldom punished, amnesty scheme have not yields substantial or reformative results.

    The laws most sadly are often abused by rivals, at every level, take for eg. tax laws at higher levels, political rivalry, etc, to RTI at lower levels, frivolous complaints against neighbouring property disputes, etc.
    While, strong arm of law has been given several years, (more than 6 decades since independent India – more if pre-independence period is counted), why not give reformative law a chance.

    While so much money is spent by Governments, on tax laws and their implementation, why not have a scheme, which rewards ordinary citizens to be honest, (no harm at all – after all its people’s money) to ensure there is proper and honest reporting and recording of all monetary transactions, which could have a chain effect in catching up the erring person, with effective evidence.

    Eg., if, a person purchaser a small pen/ gadget/fuel/food/grocery to costlier things like air conditioners, vehicles, property, etc, if the transaction is recorded / reported by a central department and coordinated between various agencies, for verifying proper collection of taxes, effectively the money in circulation is record. If purchaser records / reports his/her transaction, honestly (in return for an incentive by Govt.) the seller, is necessarily tracked and vice versa and money cannot go unaccounted or in cash dealing, etc. This theory can be elaborated, but at all times, must not be made punitive in nature warranting seizure / imposing punishment, etc as people would stop reporting, leading to again the present situation, but rather continue, so that the money circulation in toto is tracked, this will help and unearth unaccounted money. While also, a simple and rational tax regime would even help / persuade people to pay tax.

    HOW? – General conception is that budget is prepared and taxes are imposed to meet the same, concept that has been in practice for 60 years since independence, with little success. (evidence scams are result of black money – so many tax – litigations pending across the country). Give peace a change, the existing people paying taxes are harassed in complexed web of law, while evaders are seldom caught, instead of imposing heavy taxes, make in nominal, when the concept should be acceptable as there is no harm paying minimum taxes, etc.

    My thoughts: (subject to improvements): – The citizens have to be motivated to be honest and report / record / disclose transactions honestly. How can Government do it? Very easy, as it is people’s money, for the people, of the people and by the people, a scheme will have to be drafted / framed, where an incentive is given to every person to report / record their transactions. As we commonly see, everyone from the lowest income to highest income group are striving for money, money and more money, because they all are in-secured, the Government alone can give some security. My idea (only for concept) Government may come out with scheme, that whatever an individual contributes to taxes, [either direct taxes / indirect taxes, (if a person purchasers car, a portion of it is excise tax, duty, VAT, sales tax etc)] the same will be recorded as against his/her PAN Card / Unique ID card (see example of i-mint points card / pay back / rewards cards / mileage – frequent flier card schemes etc), which shall be accumulated throughout the year and one (1%) percent of the same shall be disbursed/paid to the individual / such person / continuator (or to his / her successors) every year for next 100 years, which keeps revolving every year, for transactions. Hence more a tax payer records / registers, more he get. One thing which Government has to assure is that it is free from attachments (like PPF account money type). Then what is required is to educate people, that while everyone strives so hard in life, we see now a days, people are often broken midway, due to failure in business, relationships, accidents, mishaps, other unforeseen circumstances, etc. While a person may have been very successful in life for few years, all the honesty in recording transactions / reporting etc will reward him in the form of pension, which may assure with dignity security for food clothing and shelter.
    This way black money in circulation be tapered and brought down. The note and observations is not to criticize anyone or any department but only simply things.

    These are my few thoughts on reformative laws, needs to root out corruption. I had composed my thoughts earlier as a motivator for people at deathandtaxesarecertain.blogspot.com.

  19. Appu says:

    Political power to the Civil Society is a step towards trustworthy.

  20. brahmastra says:

    NandaNi,

    The comment about Chidambaram as a ‘loongi-poser’ was not a racist comment. I respect the Tamilians above all the other sects in India. Hence I was calling out Chidambaram as a disgrace to the Tamilians by wearing a loongi and posing as a pure Tamilian when he won the election by fraud (as even mentioned by Jayalalitha herself) and his sons are all engaged in corruption upto their necks. He should not be wearing a loongi and insulting south-indians, he should be wearing jail clothes.
    As far as the list of all thos politicians having swiss bank accounts, that is probably 10%. When Modi comes to power, hoping he really does because he is the only one with the strength and integrity to follow this through, there will be some shocking revelations.

  21. Chakra says:

    Official language status does not mean it is the mainstream language my dear fellow loongi!
    In Canada and US the official language is english, but the populous languages are french and spanish respectively, GO FIGURE…

  22. Rudra says:

    Chidambaram is the biggest Scoundrel you can find in a single cloth bottom ever !

    This scamster is a total sell out to International Cartels , Italian Mafia and god knows what other powers.

    He opened up the Country to 7 Italian Banks , and 4 Swiss banks – all except one in losses in Europe , Losses not because they are not rich , but because , on balance sheets , they don’t invest the monies naywhere else – they only hold money .

    Who would invest in them ? Of course Fraudsters , whose money it isn’t.

    Chidambaram’s Loongi will unravel and reveal his Traitor Pants and He is likely to Join Raja , Kalmadi , Kanimozhi and others as he himself got 35,000 Crores in 2G scam.

    Subramanian Swamy is after his case.

    Chidambaram also STOLE the election due to fraud. His election is being contested. He is the weakest Home Minister after Shivraj Patil – who famously said when he was asked to resign after Mumbai Bombings , ‘ I have the confidence of Madam Sonia Ghandi’.

    These clowns and traitors should be sunk in Sewage Water. Thats where their genes and their minds and hearts belong, their destiny also belongs there.

  23. brahmastra says:

    Hinduism = Secularism.
    This should be engrained into the hearts and minds of the Indians.

    The Congress party has captured power mainly on their propagated false image of a secular party. They have fed and harnessed the already paranoid (and largely fanatic) mindset of the minorities. Also note that paranoia and fanaticism fuel each other.

    The minorities give top priority to their mental disease of religion/caste over collective welfare because they largely operate from primitive chakras. They are more communal than the majority Hindus. Hence, because of their reptilian brain instincts of survival and expansionism, the minorities will always vote for the Congress/UPA even if their ministers will openly sell out the country in the most extreme manner.

    Hinduism is not a constricted religion like the others. It is in India’s best interest to be a Hindu Rashtra to continue and improve its legacy as a truly secular nation. Therefore, a Hindu party has to rule India with full majority without coalition restrictions. So, all Hindus should unite and vote for a party like BJP or RSS. This would be a stepping stone in the process of Indian evolution.

  24. Nanda Ni says:

    Now I get it Mr.Brahmastra, is a Sangh Parivar Fan. Mr.Modi? I may vomit.
    Who knows about the integrity of Mr.Modi? Let’s stop this hero worship of Anna or Modi.
    And regarding Ur ‘Loongi-Poser’ U don’t hv to twist the words and pose and say “… I respect Tamilians … ”
    U said it all when U used the word ‘Loongi-Poser’ Let’s accept the fact that we Indians, cannot respect our fellow Indians, their language, their culture, their attire. When we are mocked at abroad then we talk about Racism. It’s an attitude problem
    Half of our Hindi Entertainment Industry is living on mocking at South Indians, right from Mahmood’s over-action in Padosan to 2States of Chetan Bhagat, Chatur-Ramalingam in 3-Idiots to countless TV serials and comedy shows. It’s all nothing but the problem of Attitude Adjustment.

  25. Nanda Ni says:

    Well! Apparently there was some problem with my system and I thought I lost my first comment and typed it all again. But I guess my earlier comment also was submitted.
    So, Nothing to worry.

  26. brahmastra says:

    NandaNi,

    It’s the rise of ego/individuality in pseudo-secular and pseudo-intellectuals like yourself that are plaguing India. Your calibre is very low in front of people like Modi who have toiled for the land and sacrificed all their personal desires throughout their life.
    Your individuality has caused the diseased way of your thinking and being sensitive about such brotherly acts of comedy made in good humour. When one Indian makes fun of another, it is as a brother. You have lost your grounding..that is the problem plaguing India as a whole.

  27. brahmastra says:

    And BTW, my comment about ‘loongi-poser’ is exactly as i explained it before. If you do not have a sense of trust and like to latch on to your own ideas, it’s your problem.

  28. Nanda.Ni says:

    Mr.Brahmastra,

    When did I show ego? I’ve always maintained that blindly supporting somebody whether it is ANNA HAZARE or NARENDRA MODI, is wrong.

    If Anna’s policies are a threat to Indian democracy we need to condemn it. Legal experts, other ‘EDUCATED’ social activists, and many more real intellectuals discussed Jan-LP at length on various programs on News Channels. I’m ready to listen to them, analyse and then change my feelings about the bill.

    I cannot understand one person sitting on a fast and saying “MY VERSION OF JAN-LOKPAL BILL MUST BE PASSED.” I cannot understand a person whose statements smell arrogance and obsession.

    I can’t understand calling Modi a man of Integrity. I’m of the view that people with power these days are ALL equally capable of manipulation. I’m not ready to fantasize that some miracle is going to happen if Modi becomes the PM.

    If all this amounts to be egoistic then yes, I’m egoistic. “You are free to think so.” I don’t care.
    Your tone seems to be rising when you are using phrases like ‘… People like you …” Thousands of comic acts targetting every aspect of a section of society if amounts to simple brotherly acts of comedy for you, then those whose attire, whose language, whose pronounciation is constantly mocked at might think differently.

    I made a general observation. It’s U Mr.Brahmastra who r going personal.

    about ‘Loongi-Poser’ I’ve understood U perfectly. I’m not a tamilian, I’ve never wore a Loongi, but I definitely don’t support using the word Loongi-Poser because I don’t want to hit an entire community just to criticize Mr.P.Chidambaram.

    If I’m criticizing Anna Hazare it is him, I shall not target any aspect of Maharashtrian Culture.
    If I’m criticizing Modi it is him, I shall not target any aspect of Gujarati Culture.
    ==========================================================
    I don’t understand your statement “Your calibre is very low in front of people like Modi who have toiled for the land and sacrificed all their personal desires throughout their life.”

    a) What do U know about my calibre? Just because I’m not in public life?

    b) Even if, my calibre is less, fine, but that doesn’t stop me from voicing my views about a political leader who is aspiring to become a national leader. at least that’s what is our right as voters and people of India.

    c) If you are so intolerant to other views and opinions, then I’m sorry but that’s your problem Mr.Brahmastra.

    d) I didn’t know, sitting in an air-conditioned auditorium spending crores of Govt Money and staging a drama of fast is called … what’s it “… Sacrifice all personal desires, … blah blah blah.”

    ==========================================================
    What I wrote aren’t merely some ideas of mine, they are called observations, which I penned in my comments.
    I believe in them, I don’t latch on them. And my intelligence tells me that my ideas aren’t my PROBLEM, they are just My Ideas.

  29. Nanda.Ni says:

    Mr. Brahmastra,
    If U could excuse me I’d like to explain myself,

    I wrote on … August 25, 2011 at 2:28 am … “I’d like to tell people like Mr.Brahmastra, … ”
    I’d like to make it clear that when I wrote it, I didn’t mean to criticize the way you wrote “… Pseudo inetellecturals like yourself …”
    I just meant to worry that at the Peak of Anna’s protests we were finding many people who were emotionally charged and weren’t ready to find what other intellectuals were saying about Jan-LP and blindly supporting Anna Hazare.
    Thankyou

  30. brahmastra says:

    Nanda.Ni,

    I don’t know why you refuse to accept my detailed explanation in a couple of posts ago about the ‘loongi-poser’ remark!

    You are completely entitled to your views. It’s just that some members of the Sangh Parivar such as the RSS are probably the most selfless, dedicated and service-oriented organisations in the world. You need to personally meet and get to know the history and accomplishments of some of these people before blindly following the brain-washing of the leftover colonial slaves that dominate the media and the pseudo-secular bunch of morons.

    It is unfortunate that intelligent people as yourself have been psychologically cornered into labelliing anyone associated with Hinduism as ‘communal’. Realize that equating Hinduism with communalism is an oxymoron, because the whole secular fabric of India is the result of India having been a Hindu Rashtra from time immemorial. Now, if you rock that equation and dilute the Hindutva fragrance of India, and encourage the inferior religions, you are not doing anybody any service. These are tough facts that Indians need to accept.

  31. Nanda.Ni says:

    Mr.Brahmastra,

    I’m glad U hv changed Ur tone to that of a discussion. And I don’t want to be called intelligent at least as long as I’m not called a Pseudo-Secular or Pseudo-Intelligent. Well Thanks U.

    I confess I’did never really meet any member of Sangh Parivar, And I’m completely clue-less about whether anybody from RSS has ever been selfless and dedicated. In fact, I’m not talking about RSS.

    Although I’m bound carry a general perception about it, we can’t at the same time ignore their acts like attacking those women in Karnataka sometime back for wearing T-Shirts and Trousers. Personally I’m condemn a man or woman wanting even his/her spouse to wear a certain kind of clothing. That’s their personal choice.

    I do believe India, sadly perhaps the only country in the world where its Religious Majority enjoys secondary importance. But at the same time I don’t support the extreme acts like the unfortunate Babri-Masjid Issue. While I only MOSTLY agree with what you wrote in your Last Paragrah here;
    I don’t want to discuss about RSS or Sangh Parivar further, only bcz that’s going to be too much here and perhaps this isn’t the correct forum.

    Well as I wrote before it’s not about RSS. What troubles me is BJP. I strongly feel it is a Political party with a bunch of hypocrites. Everybody posing to be clean, not at all corrupt. They totally want people to forget all what they have done during their regime under Mr.Vajpai’s Govt about Inflation, Petrol-Prices, unemployment and a whole galaxy of issues concerning the common man and today wants us to believe that all is the fault of only the present UPA Govt.

    Unlike RSS, BJP is necessarily a political party. I find them not free from all the murk associated with Politics. People with power aren’t saints.
    BJP, as a political party does neither stick to the principles on which their parent organizations are built nor they are any better than their counter parts. I’m not saying congress is great. I’m not saying Congress has done great good. At the same time I’m not ready to believe that BJP essentially is going to do any good to this nation. They make use of Corruption, they make use of Hindutva and they make use of petty issues in various parts of the country and indulge in cheap politics just to climb the ladder.

    And I’ve got serious problem with ANNA HAZARE saying from Ramlila Maidan and I quote “This CONGRESS Govt will not bring Jan-LP.” If he were truly fighting for a cause he wasn’t supposed to be mentioning any political party.

    Having confessed my personal opinion, we can just cross our fingers and wait to see what’s going to be the people’s verdict in 2014. And the maximum difference we can make is just a billionth part by casting our own vote. We can hardly help anything more than that. Although I don’t WANT to fancy anybody and believe that some miracle is going to happen if a certain party or a certain leader is going to win.

    All I’m saying is unless serious electoral reforms take place, unless people rise beyond political parties and elect people whom we really trust locally. Unless there is a sea change in the way we elect our representatives. And unless they start talking the truth instead of trying to make people believe what benefits them, we can’t expect any great changes.

    Simply making statements like “Right to Recall”, “Right to Reject”, like our dear ANNA won’t work. We need to get a thorough expert advise in these matters and we must be ready to listen to them and understand and discuss at length, even if it is likely to take a little longer time.
    When we start cooking at noon, we can’t demand Lunch in an hour. We must be patient.

    I don’t want to BLINDLY put my faith in either MODI or RAHUL GANDHI. Let’s not forget that at the end of the day either of them MIGHT want to do something good and win the hearts of the people. But it’s about how HONEST they’ll be while they try to win people love.

  32. Nanda.Ni says:

    I must reiterate that I’ve got more problem with ANNA than with MODI or RAHUL.
    The later are Poltical leaders eventually people will judge them as political leaders.
    But ANNA is talking like an autocrat, trying to over-ride the principles of democracy.
    Making people
    a) blindly put faith in him,
    b) trying to project a functioning democracy as a dictatorship.
    He is a danger to our society.

  33. brahmastra says:

    Nanda.Ni,

    Looks like you got the hots for Mr. Anna..dude is a rockstar now. No matter what, he has injected a good dose of ethical citizenship into the masses.

    As far as the corruption in BJP vs Congress is concerned, BJP is like a well-intended pick-pocket whereas the Congress is a murderous house-burglar who robs his own house. This blanket perspective of people is quite deluded and misleading. Reality is entire Indian society is corrupt, and it would be audacious to expect a huge political outfit such as the BJP to be completely immune of the system. But at the end of the day, BJP is a party with a relatively higher level of sophistication and consisting of well-educated, ethical and hearty leaders/members as compared to the circus act of the UPA. The BJP could well be the stepping stone to a Vedic society which should be the goal of India in the new age.

  34. Nanda.Ni says:

    BJP leaders can be anything but sophisticated, ethical, and blah blah blah.
    They lack principles, and ethics. They are mean & power hungry.
    Anna is a rockstar now? Well, I guess it is a matter of time, before his mask fades and people come out of his intoxication. Actiually that Anna Man is stubborn, un-educated and attention seeking. It’s only he could well market himself by provocative words.

  35. brahmastra says:

    Nanda.Ni,

    Maybe these CNBC interview videos with Modi will lighten up your perspective:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ6U_fOcGWM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHwCBPWnV_I

  36. Nanda.Ni says:

    Some undue arrest in Gujarat is in the news I believe. An arrest followed by an attack on family, humiliation, reportedly for unexplicable reasons?

    Well, something like that is seen on the national media.

  37. Nanda.Ni says:

    Dear Mr.Brahmastra,

    I’ve gone thru both the CNBC interviews.
    Thankyou for sending me the two links. It was so kind of U.
    But
    I fail to understand what those interviews actually prove about BJP or Modi.
    What way am I concerned about anything what has been discussed on those interviews?
    Believe me the two links have done nothing at all to change or lighten up, as U put it, my perspective about BJP.
    Thankyou

  38. Brig Ajay Kalia says:

    ANNA CONFOUNDED OR MISLED?

    1. Team Anna has achieved stupendous success in mobilising the masses to put pressure on the government to have a strong Lok Pal Bill introduced in parliament most probably in the winter session. Their larger aim is of course the fight against corruption and ensuring a honest and dedicated political setup in the country. These goals are definitely laudable and need of the hour, but is team Anna moving in the right direction? If not then what is the right direction?
    2. Jan Lokpal Bill. The government can introduce a strong Lokpal lBill in parliament taking into account all recommendations received from team Anna, Aruna Roy, Jai Prakash Narayan and others. This is what the UPA spokesperson has assured and has been reiterated by Mr Abhishek Singhvi. The parliament has also conveyed the pulse of both the houses of parliament to the standing committee. The chairman of the standing committee has further stated that though it has been given three months to finalise the Lokpal Bill, it will work overtime and beat the deadline. So what more does team Anna want? The least they can do is wait for the winter session of parliament to commence. If the UPA or any other party demonstrates their opposition to the bill then team Anna, backed by the people of this country can take them on by means of a Ram lila ground encore or active canvassing at the hustlings as an when elections or by-elections are announced. Anna Hazare’s declaration that, congress (UPA) has not given him a written assurance that they will get the jan lokpal bill passed in the winter session is outright ridiculous in a democracy. As per the constitution of India each member of the respective house has to vote according to his or her conscience and not as per party whip. Team Anna is implying just that i.e. UPA should ensure issue of party whip to have the bill passed. Anna must understand that even if the UPA wants to issue a party whip on the issue, it cannot commit that in writing. The other parties like the BJP have also merely assured him of support for the lokpal bill not that 100% NDA or BJP members will vote for the bill. Thus a BJP tilt becomes obvious. To a question during press conference in Hisar, Arvind Kejriwal could only uncomfortably murmur that they (team Anna) are not opposing Mayavati, though she is an opponent of the jan lokpal bill, because she does not have the numbers to have the Jjan lokpal bill passed in parliament. This beats logic. The righteous thing would be to canvass against all those who oppose the jan lokpal bill as had been stated by Anna during his fast at the Ram lila ground, wherein he exhorted the masses to force the MPs of their respective constituencies to ensure their party supports the Jan Lokpal Bill or face extinction at the polls. Now that stand has been conveniently modified, to vote against the Congress/UPA only. Lallu Yadav and Sharad Yadav had also opposed the bill so had Jayalalita but there is no word against them or their parties.
    3. Let me make a dispassionate attempt at examining sincerity of team Anna towards effectiveness in fighting against corruption. The monster named corruption can be effectively maimed in the following ways, in descending order of impact on corruption :-
    a. Cleanse the society leading to a socially evolved society by a mix of social education and indoctrination and stricter implementation of existing laws. If an Indian does not spit in Singapore or give bribes in UK so should he not in India either on his own or because of fear of the law.
    b. Ensure cleanup of the political system or implementation of political reforms. One major step towards achieving this would be debarring charge sheeted or History Sheeters from contesting elections. Another effective step would be in the form of directive to courts to dispose off pending cases against elected members of parliament/legislative assemblies on priority by establishing special courts to deal with their cases in a time bound manner. Team Anna can also help by floating a political party, winning elections and showing by example how to correctly govern the country. It is a tough option and failure here could send them into oblivion. To achieve something significant one has to stick ones head out even at the probability of it getting chopped.
    c. Bring back lakhs of crores of Rupees stashed in Swiss Banks and other cash havens. This is probably not on team Anna’s radar. Not being on the radar leads one to contemplate, is it because t this could point fingers at the government and opposition alike. The iron is hot so why doesn’t team Anna want to strike. In the current global scenario Germany and USA have succeeded in getting these details and the Germans are ready to share the details they have extracted by paying a Swiss Bank official and some details are also available with wikileaks.
    d. Appointment of Lokpal and Lok Ayukts. I have put this lower down because firstly appointment of Lokpal andLlok Ayukts would not only be tedious, but finding the right apolitical candidates acceptable to all would be a daunting task. The administrative apparatus to implement their charter and ensuring the members themselves remain above board and apolitical would require quite an effort. The CVC and Election Commission despite their relative independence from the government haven’t made much of a dent in cleansing their respective domains.
    e. Right to Recall. Anna Hazare has intimated that their next step would be to cleanse the political morass by campaigning for right to recall politically elected candidates, who do not perform in accordance with the will of the electorate or are dishonest. This again is a laudable initiative but practically very difficult if not impossible to implement. USA, Germany and many Latin American countries have a right to recall Act, but it is rarely used and extremely difficult to execute. Nitish Kumar has implemented a recall bill in Bihar, but only in respect of elected representatives of civic bodies and for member of the legislative assembly. This bill requires 2/3rd of the electorate to vote against the elected member of a civic body to ensure his recall. Mobilising such huge masses would be well neigh impossible. In any country it would be a herculean task to mobilise over 75% of the electorate to vote as only then we can expect a 67% negative vote against the elected representative to be recalled. Let us look at a successful recall in USA. In 2003 recall of Governor of California, Gray Davis and simultaneous election of Arnold Schwarznegger demonstrated to the American people, the power of a little used tool of direct democracy – ‘The Recall’. We must look at the extreme circumstances under which it was successful. Davis had inherited a 9 billion USD budget surplus, which during his term had turned into a 38 billion USD deficit. College fees had to be raised, health clinics were closed, various licence fees had to be doubled or tripled and there were electricity shortages. A Republican Congressman had to contribute 1.6 million USD of his own money to pay people to gather signatures on petition to recall Governor Davis. They had to collect 9,00,000 valid signatures to force the vote as Californian law requires at least 12% of the number who voted in the last election to qualify a recall. It is definitely an important tool of direct democracy which a Nation must have in it’s armoury, however it’s protagonists must be fully aware of the difficulty in its implementation, especially in a developing country like India.
    4. I would sincerely implore team Anna to give their fight against corruption a relook and concentrate on measures which will have quantifiable results in bringing down corruption and retrieving black money. Annaji certainly needs better advise and focus.
    Email ajayismyname@yahoo.com Certified This is an original article.
    (Brigadier(R) Ajay Kalia)

  39. pooja says:

    Anna who is fighting against corruption in public eyes is an inventor of a big political game through which he had kept unjustified demands which went unquestioned by public.

    He demanded in the Lokpal bill that the officials who will be responsible for handing corruption cases should be given police rights so that they can arrest any one and at any time.

    Only if one can imagine what it could lead to, if Government agreed to this, people sitting peacefully at home, with no dirt on their hands, can suddenly be caught for no reason and will be put in jail by Anna (in case he doesn’t like You ). The period given for the verdict resolution is only 2 years which is definitely not enough for an innocent to free himself of guilty before court in India.

    So if one has given even a 100 rupee note in bribe by mistake, get ready for an imprisonment of 10 years. Yes, the minimum is 10 years. Your whole life will turn into a black hole.

    I am not saying this will happen but by agreeing to his demands, Government will pass him enough rights to so this to any one in the country. So what you need to do if this happens? Well, speak out………”HAIL ANNA!”

    …And sleep peacefully

    Right to speech, yes it is a part of our constitution but when Arundati Roy spoke against Anna, public responded with something unexpected “She is a bitch, she should be raped!”

    What a response! Of course they also have the right to speak but are they not aware that under our constitution, we are not allowed to insult anyone in public? We are not supposed to use abusive language?

    Some of you reading this may be thinking that I am against Anna, may be I am favouring some political party but I have already made it clear that I was apolitical but as a human I have views, I support right and hate wrong doings.

    Now looking at the Government, never ending of corruption, more than 30% of them above 70 years of age, can we expect any change?

    Once there used to be king rule where one family ruled over the entire regime and the crown was passed on to their successors. Now we say that we have a democratic government chosen by people but is it really that way?

    Look at our political structure:

    Congress…began with Nehru Gandhi…followed by Indira then Rajeev than Sonia than Rahul………and it will go on forever , and we all know this is not the only family.

    The same genes, the same values are carried by their children and their children taken from their corrupt ancestors, how can we expect any change in Indian regulation?

    The only solution is to break this trend, to not have the same family keep ruling. Any politician who have been a minister or MLA should not be followed by his or her children, only new people with different belief system, different background should follow the regime. This is the only way out.

  40. where to look to laugh…

    […]Anna Hazare : Is political power to the Civil Society a threat to Democracy ? « Shekharkapur.com[…]…

  41. nedjma says:

    nedjma…

    […]Anna Hazare : Is political power to the Civil Society a threat to Democracy ? « Shekharkapur.com[…]…

  42. apparao says:

    his moment is not political stunt ,but somebody thinking like personal image but it is not true bcz of he is not belongs to any political parties. His fast leads anti corruption awareness in society.

  43. great post, is this all your own practical knowledge or would you research the data for a post.

  44. Wrad 104 Madipur Delhi Nigam Prashad election main Babar & Kapil Sibal chor neta ne 1 crore rupya Uma Pawar se leye ticket dene kai.

    Chammar
    Madipur
    Delhi

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