Did Karl Marx predict this ecomomic meltdown ?

“Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalized, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism” Karl Marx, Das Kapital
Did Karl Marx really write this on Das kapital ? I have not read it – and picked this quote up on one of our blog community’s own blogs. Because if he did, the only prediction that has not come true YET is “.. the state will have to take the road that will eventually lead to communism”.
US a communist country ? Seems highly unlikely, but certainly not impossible.
A government controlled market definitely is the first step to socialism But just as the US has learned that unfettered capitalism works only in theory, China learned (as did the USSR) that total uncorrupt communism is also just as theoretical.
To find the right balance, and to be constantly at vigil. That fine balancing act will be Obama’s biggest test, for there are dangers on both sides of the fence.

45 Responses to “Did Karl Marx predict this ecomomic meltdown ?”

  1. Harb says:

    I think the things are actually going the way the philosophies of Kant, Hegel and Marx described: that is, that first there comes a thesis, then in reaction to it an antithesis and laslty a synthesis of both. Then again out of it at due time emerges the next thesis…This is the way evolutionary scheme advances forth.
    At a certain time capitalism emerged as the thesis to run an economy, then in reaction to it there came its antithesis in the form of communism, and now perhaps is the time for a synthesis, to be accomplsihed by Obama.
    Harb

  2. brahmastra says:

    The ancient (uncorrupted) Vedic caste system was the most efficient social model ever which was synchronized with the depths of universal design. All these fancy names like Karl Marx, Das Capital, socialism, yada yada are just pseudo-intellectual, half-truth theories which are doomed to fail again and again. Actually, the very notion of a utopian society is a fantasy. It might be worth considering that this world is not meant to be as you want it..it is not meant to be a happy, ego-feeding place with complete external equality.
    That is why Communism is also attractive to low monkey minds..they cannot accept that externally, humans are not equal..its based on genetics, conditioning and reincarnation. The best we can do is categorize and align humans as per their capacities, and that is what was the basis of the caste system was..and it worked for thousands of years to maintain that balance.
    Now, its a mess..people of a low intellectual ability are told that they can govern and become scientists and doctors, and through quota systems and such, they are put in such powerful places, and they have degraded things. It is such a ridiculous paradox..that when you understand inner equality, you have to accept external inequality as well. All this hoopla about democracy, freedom and stuff is just hogwash.

  3. Sridhar Iyer says:

    Not read the book.. if Karl Marx said that, then he was wrong. The government will not take control of the banks but will put stringent checks on the process…
    The sub prime mess was due to the banks not following orders, some corrupt dude was look otherways.. and we had a small little scam going on. Those were sold to Lehman et al, who further propagated this effect a bit further, factor in the fact that the whole world buys oil in dollars.. and you see the whole economic collapse in new light.
    Be it communism or capitalism.. one corrupt person is good enough to screw the whole system. India is neither a purely capitalist or communist country, Satyam gave a good blow to an already sunken economy.. and as always media fuels in FUD and the markets becomes more volatile..
    All that needs to be done is to weed out bad apples from the top.. what system you follow doesn’t really matter.

  4. It’s is amazing if Karl Marx wrote that but it is so exactly what is happening! Living in the western democratic capitalistic world right now is like if you are in Lewis Carrol’s Alice in Wonderland you don’t know what you going to see next or what is real or not…what will get bigger or what smaller! Even here in Trinidad on a small island our gvtmt has just as of Fri had to rescue one of our biggest, brightest and most successful’s businessman’s bank-CL Financial. He in return agree to give up one of his investment companies,50% shareholding in another bank (to the gvtmt) and 50% shareholding in a methanol company back to the gvtmt. For sure he is a victim of the meltdown a burst in the bubble as he calls it and like how I more think of it. He also has a stake in the construction industry where you really see and feel it when bubbles burst!
    I know it was happening in the US and globally but seeing it happen right before my eyes locally too now has made me realise how unstable things are right now economy wise globally…
    And really for the first time perhaps ever cause this is not just a recession…you dont know where to put your foot next! At least money wise…

  5. Ruturaj says:

    Sir, let me first tell you that I knew you were a good film-maker first and wasn’t any fan of yours. But after reading this blog. I m not only a fan of yours but also look at you as my idol in life.
    What would you like yourself, communalism or capitalism??
    Won’t communalism take away many freedoms and would be sort of contradictary to Democracy??

  6. Mee says:

    In theory, everyone is equal in a communist government, however this is not true in many aspects. When only one person controls a communist government, its not far off from totalitarianism, as that one voice is the only one that really matters. In a democracy, however, every citizen has an equal say in government. Suffrage rights apply to men and women alike, regardless of race, past education, heritage, etc. Even in ancient Greece and Rome, every citizen could vote individually at an assembly, with a vote from a farmer counting as much as a vote from an artist.
    As you can see, Communist and Democratic forms of government are very contrary to each other. As they both have benefits and disadvantages, people continuously argue over the superior choice, despite history.
    In reality both the forms allow only a few to gain and keep gaining, and the rest are always without mercy plundered i.e. the have nots. So “the haves” i,e the owners of a society make the rules and break them or corrupt them basis their convenience. while the “have nots’ remain the have nots as is evidenced in India or USa or Russia or China.

  7. Ruturaj says:

    I meant communism not communalism

  8. Dev says:

    Dear Shekhar,
    I havent read Das Kapital either. But this quote seems too twisted to suit the current economic crisis, and hence I really doubt it’s veracity. Perhaps somebody here who has really gone through the opus really well could enlighten us.
    Regards
    Dev

  9. hari/jimmy says:

    I enjoyed my kite flying yesterday.Happy Basant Panchmi folks.
    ***
    Isn’t “low monkey minds” an insult to Hanumanji?
    I wonder whether the ‘uncorrupted Vedic system’ would appreciate an Obama to become the US President.According to my interpretation of the Vedas in the modern age they would.
    INDIA thru its steadfast creation, leadership,adherence to NAM(Non-Aligned Movement) has already lead this ‘best-of-both-worlds’ movement for 60 years.
    Nehru,Gandhi and Dadabhai Naoroji are who we should be talking about than Marx,Keyenes and Adam Smith even at the global stage.Although shoulders of all giants should be respected.
    We already experienced nationalisation during Indira’s 70s and liberalisation was an offsetting and balancing of that era alone.
    As yesterday on CNN Iran’s Foreign minister said (in ‘Obama’s World’)America has talked and dictated a lot maybe now its time for her to listen from others and if lucky even learn.
    ***
    P.S. (India the next Super Power?) would be an interesting thread to reread under Shekhar’s Current Events Category in the context.Generally conspicuously uncelebrated virtues of India’s 60 years are briefly mentioned in #25 therein, if one likes.

  10. hari/jimmy says:

    Pardon my arrogance but If any ones surprised who Dadabhai Naoroji was please do wikipedia him.
    You will be astonished to find that he was the original’Grand old man of India’ who wrote ‘Poverty and un-British Rule in India’.He became the first Asian MP in the British house of commons.
    Most importantly he was mentor to G.K.Gokhale and M.K.Gandhi and founded Indian National Congress with AO Hume and Dinshaw Edilji Wacha.
    Methinks India was the World’s experiment with Idealism which is now maturing while the world is in tumoil.
    ***
    Marx,Keyens and Smith were available to the US even in the Great Depression and they came back with vengence on communism after the catastrophe.
    They don’t get converted they usually go to war when depressed.

  11. koizen says:

    A new kind of Capitalist communism will be in vogue after some years.

  12. Horst Vollmann says:

    Dear Shekhar:
    The juggernaut of unfettered capitalism has developed a momentum that is very hard to assess and even harder to break. Whatever the steps are that are being applied it may not be enough and it also may be too late to prevent immeasurable devastation. It will be a daunting task for the Obama administration to find the right touch to send out the signals to an economy that is almost mortally wounded. I believe that the great economists of the last century have not taken into their equations of a well functioning capitalism the incredible volatility of human greed. The purity of human endeavor, almost completely devoid of corruptibility, was the premise of these theorists to lay out the parameters of a capitalist system as it was supposed to have functioned in a nearly perfect world. When the shackles of regulatory constraints were almost completely removed new rules and new laws were simultaneously written by those who had the power and the tools to lure an unsuspecting middle class into consumer binges of unseen and unheard of dimensions. If Karl Marx has indeed said what you had quoted he certainly was an exceedingly prescient man.
    The word socialism has never found its way into the hearts of the American populace and communism was always associated with evil, rigidity and corruption and in the 50s
    the distaste of it had nearly attained the intensity of a pogrom. The irony is that this country is in the throes of a nationalization process that will bring it surprisingly close to becoming a socialist state. The government is now taking steps that makes it look like a magnanimous parent that is showing its errant child how not to be naughty and how to abide by the rules of civility. Nobody dares to whisper the dreaded word but socialism is written all over the face of the statue of liberty like an unsightly graffiti. What is wrong with that picture? Not that much, to be honest. There is finally a president who spells out what we all have secretly wished would happen: the old system is dead, the old mechanisms no longer function. The vernacular of conspicuous consumption no longer enjoys its old popularity. The call being sent out and increasingly heard by the masses is that we must find a way to combine socialism with capitalism. There are a number of European countries that have successfully made progress in that direction. Their people live in free societies and do not feel the constraints of the dogmatic weight the word socialism engenders. They have found a way to establish greater equity without losing their competitive drive. Their chasm between the haves and havenots is not as deep and unbridgeable as it has become in the U.S. A fairer distribution of wealth is not as terrible a concept as the rich would make us believe and that as recently as last October was belittled and bedeviled by McCain and was treated with scorn by a hostile conservative press.
    It is true that Barack Obama is now conducting a balancing act that we all must hope will not end in disappointment and disillusion. If he wins we will win big. I wish him godspeed.
    With kind regards.
    Horst

  13. chstrig says:

    With Brahmastra’s permission, I’d like to save his comment. Even without the caste system things eventually organize themselves as such. It is laughable if one suggests there is no class structure in western society. An individual’s progress is determined by his wealth and distribution of wealth is controlled by a group of individuals. People in the west are just as role-bound as were people under the Indian caste system. Indian caste system was looked down upon because Indians were defeated, captured.

  14. hari/jimmy says:

    Horst maybe its time to invent new words in the 21st Century.
    What we are seeing right now is Govt.Corporate Responsibility(GCR).But the Govt. Public Responsibility(GPR) must ensure now that in future CSR(Corporate Social Responsibility) becomes a socially felt reality.
    TIME did an interesting cover on ‘Reinventing Capitaism’ about 5 months back with Bill Gates.That could be a starting point to consider.
    There was no dearth of socially responsible capitalists in the past or present the point is that has to be made the norm than the exception in the future.
    From Robert Owens and Quakers to Rockefellers and Carnegies to Bill Gates and Warren Buffets to Richard Bransons and Laxmi Mittals to Narayan murthys and Rattan Tatas.
    But some of these people living now must be listened to very very carefully especially by the corporate world.
    The communist ideal of State intervention to redistribute wealth(even if possible) will discourage merit,hard/smart work and innovation.
    If the world aviation system collapsed for some cause we wouldn’t go back to rail, road or ship for global travel,Will we? It’ll haunt for sometime but we will remedy problems, find progressive solutions for the future and move on.
    There’s many a silverlining in this crisis.We’ll all need to do a serious relook of at least the last hundred years to be able to even listen on the issue let alone talk or write on it.

  15. kishore says:

    That quote is fake, it is a hoax. Snopes will probably include it soon in their catalog, given the amount of buzz it is generating. Marx actually believed that lowering of wages for lower classes will render them to total poverty (that is not a quote of course, just loosely what he thought). If you believe the quote, it’s the opposite – banks will be nationalized and the poor get to keep the houses 🙂 But of course – ‘nationalization’ of anything is considered socialist – but USA already has certain socialist organizations. USPS. Transport. Even Oil in Alaska is somewhat socialist – the residents get a pay off. However I don’t think ‘ideology’ should be used as the criteria – but rather, the cost/benefit of nationalizing a service or organization.

  16. Sir,
    This is a POWER SHIFT from the WEST to the EAST. It had to begun somewhere. The consuming WEST kept exploiting the EAST and dictating Price and other Terms. The West kept the consuming culture away from savings while the Bankers (CEO) went on pocketing BIG FAT BONUSES and marching in the FORBES lists. Now when the Bubble has bursted if that has.. the Interest rate is 0%.
    Its a WAR between CONSUMING and SAVINGS.
    Will it lead to Communism.. Don’t know.
    A balance of Corruption and Governance will only survive.
    Vinod Agarwal – No Swiss Accounts here.

  17. Vivek says:

    Maybe any system is fine, its just that humans are the weak point of any such system.
    I find it little odd that there is no upper limit or lower limit in capitalism.

  18. hari/jimmy says:

    In old Sanatan(Hindu) Shastras its written one’s wealth should be divided into five parts:
    1.one for religious purposes
    2.for ones own people
    3.for reinvestment
    4.for ones name and fame
    5.for luxuries and personal joys of life.
    (This was told by Shukracharya to King Bali who still gave away his all to Vamana the incarnation of Vishnu)
    ***
    Kautilya/Chanakya the great economist of the yore should also be refered to for indepth idea of the development of Eastern economy.He could in some ways also be called as India’s answer to Macheavelli.
    ***
    In Guru Nanak’s teachings we have the concept of “dasan naohan di kirt,vand ke chakkna ate daswand kadna” to balance personal and social aspirations.The sentence means ‘Earning by honest means,sharing your food and spending 10% of one’s earnings on welfare of the society’.
    ***
    Such great thoughts have kept the eastern civilisations live and kicking even without Bretton Woods.
    And chstrig I am not defendng the cast system but sophisticated societies with the burden of non-violent ethos of ancestors on their shoulders have always been captured and defeated by savages.
    Just watch “The Last Samurai” and Tom Cruise will tell you better.

  19. brahmastra says:

    chstrig,
    You misunderstand the caste system. It is not about distribution of wealth, or the survival of the fittest, or the roles as they are in the western world. It is much deeper than that.
    To get a pedegree dog such as a beagle with superior hunting senses, it has to have had pedegree parents with the same genetic qualities. This is not a secret, and no, it is not racism as is commonly known today. The Indian caste system was based on a very simple premise – that the society, as a family, needs 4 distinct specialized roles: that of a spiritual guide, of an administrator, of a merchant, and of a meagre worker. Now, assuming the concepts of reincarnation and genetics, each of these roles were thoroughly specialized by categorized breeding and strict lifestyles and diet assigned for each caste, with complete faith in the design that it would take care of the upgrading when necessary. Hence, India has had the finest spiritual teachers, kings and merchants in the history of mankind. To a good extent, this is still quite obvious in today’s Indian society, with the Hindu high caste being intellectually far superior than most of the world…hence, despite the worst material infrastructure, India’s rapid global rise in all white-collar streams. Indian brahmins are the most evolved humans on the planet. Until not so long ago, this was benevolently accepted by most Indians..until the rise of materialism corrupted all branches of the caste system..and the respect and trust were broken.
    Whether such a social model can be repeated or is appropriate anymore is anyones guess. All i’m saying right now is that Karl Marx and all these fancy socio-political ideologies are a bunch of hogwash that will never work as well as the ancient caste system. Things are very simple..none of these theoretical monkeys have ever thought of including the effects of food and consiousness into their theses. Eating pigs and animals may not eliminate greed and lower emotions.

  20. Harb says:

    Even my body has cast system – having four casts thanks to its having to go through four basic interactions in its growth/evolution.
    1. Bone and marrow cells, akin to clay to minerals at species level. These provide me with physical structure.
    2. Blood and muscle cells, akin to plants and animals at species level. These provide me with clean air and ability to move.
    3. Nerve cells, aking to man at species level. These help me with acquiring and circulation of information.
    4. Super cells, aking to masters, sages and polymath geniuses at the species level. These help me rise above my limited body/vision and connect with the bigger picture.
    Cast system should be understood like this, belonging to a ONE cultural body, and looked after/respected accordingly.
    Here is a poem by Rumi that in fact we ALL pass through these casts in cycles to reach God or One and then to begin again:
    “I Died as a Mineral” by Maulana Rumi
    I died as a mineral and became a plant,
    I died as plant and rose to animal,
    I died as animal and I was Man.
    Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?
    Yet once more I shall die as Man, to soar
    With angels blest; but even from angelhood
    I must pass on: all except God doth perish.
    When I have sacrificed my angel-soul,
    I shall become what no mind ever conceived.
    Oh, let me not exist! for Non-existence
    Proclaims in organ tones, ‘To Him we shall return.’
    *****
    And here is an independant paragraph (when I had not even heard of Rumi) from my book and equally inspired which depicts the same theme (I refer to God or One as Mosc – Matter of spiritual category):
    “Yesterday we were animals; a day before, plants; a couple of days before, minerals; prior to that, Mosc. Tomorrow we shall be supermen; a day after, almost unrecognizable but as superior to man as man is now superior to animals; and then, after a long time, first constantly decreasing corporally but increasing cerebrally, then even decreasing cerebrally and changing perhaps to lumps of pure light or intelligence, we shall merge indistinguishably again into Mosc…”
    Note: The changes I have described above have been shown to take place because of the system of Earth as a whole going through four basic forces or interaction. That the whole evolution is the result of every small or big system’s thus going through four basic interactons is the main theme of my book.
    Harb

  21. austere says:

    Any ism but does human nature change?
    Any ism – capitalism, communism, capitalist communism and we’d be sure to find a “patli gully” a bypass, a detour.
    I think more patchwork solutions, more kneejerk reactions.
    Where will it lead? Dunno.

  22. Shekhar says:

    The reason for collapse of the banking system is well-founded by Karl Marx. Nonetheless, this will not lead to communism and neither is Barrack Obama going to take the US in that direction.
    For an educated society like the United States, a communist theory will not fly with the sheer majority of populace. The rights to freedom and make individual choices are what drive the culture of the American people. The Chinese communism has been powerful due to the largerly illiterate and impoverised classes of people.
    The US is in a financial and economic mess right now, but it’s also the country of the brightest research, leading trains of thought, and relentless pursuit towards excellence. Every economy has dents, and the US has gone through a recession many times in the past. The current recession is bigger than before, the the American people will rise above it.
    I find the argument about the US paving a path towards communism unfounded. There are many arguments which can be brought up against such a possibility.

  23. The reason for collapse of the banking system is well-founded by Karl Marx. Nonetheless, this will not lead to communism and neither is Barrack Obama going to take the US in that direction.
    For an educated society like the United States, a communist theory will not fly with the sheer majority of populace. The rights to freedom and make individual choices are what drive the culture of the American people. The Chinese communism has been powerful due to the largerly illiterate and impoverised classes of people.
    The US is in a financial and economic mess right now, but it’s also the country of the brightest research, leading trains of thought, and relentless pursuit towards excellence. Every economy has dents, and the US has gone through a recession many times in the past. The current recession is bigger than before, the the American people will rise above it.
    I find the argument about the US paving a path towards communism unfounded. There are many arguments which can be brought up against such a possibility.
    Shekhar Prasad
    http://www.shweta.ca
    http://www.shekharprasad.com

  24. vaishali says:

    i think its always a balance…what goes down will go up again..:)

  25. Rudra says:

    brahmastra,
    Brilliant Analyis ! write to me at rudrabhairav@yahoo.com.

  26. Harb says:

    It is indeed power shift from gaia’a (living earth’s) left-side brain to right side brain, from rational to intuitive brain, from the brain which sees everything out there, separate from it to the brain which sees everything in here, part of it/one-whole, from the brain which tries to know things in terms of science to the brain which knows things sort of directly.
    Well said, Vinod!

  27. raj says:

    Hello,
    The day USA GOES down , this world will be a mess. If china becomes super-power, I just dont have the time to learn Chinese..
    USA will bounce back and the world will watch this great country back on its feet. USA has time and again showed the world that it can face any problem..USA does not get scared of History,It creates History..
    This is just a wake up call from USA to stop its dependence on other Nations and soon u will see new companies erupting and taking advantage of recession..
    God Bless the USA..

  28. ruchi says:

    i have a question will people borther about doing something about it till their own livelyhood is in danger? just curious, i am so thank ful i have a job and middleclass lifestyle

  29. hari/jimmy says:

    Hey brahmastra, in case you missed I’d invite your attention to #9.
    ***
    Harb,
    What about Consciousness and Stem cells which can convert into any other cell just like the modern age where any one on his or her merits(like Obama,Mayawati,RK Narayan)can choose any vocation in life.
    ***
    There was this comment about distribution of wealth as Sukracharya tells King Bali. And Chanakya and Macheavelli.And Guru Nanak’s concept of Daswand(10% of ones earnest earnings for charity).How Eastern economies thrived on altruism and bonhomie before Bretton Woods.And How Tom Cruise tells in “The Last Samurai” that savage civilisations have always captured and defeated sophisticated civilisations because the latter are burdened by the ancestral ethos of non-violence and other ideals etc.
    I think it just got lost in translation.

  30. Yuva says:

    Nordic countries worked out nice system and I don’t know why that’s not popular in other EUcountries.
    and may be this interests you:
    european vs american economy model
    http://fuel2economy.blogspot.com/2008/08/economy-model-european-vs-american.html
    inclusive capitalism for india
    http://fuel2economy.blogspot.com/2008/11/inclusive-capitalism-for-india.html

  31. Harb says:

    hari, consciousness is common to all divisions and has no part to play apart from them and hence nor the need for mentioning.
    When we describe four phases of our life we say childhood, youth, middle age and old age. We do not begin from womb to childhood etc, similarly, I did not feel the need to begin from stem cell from which all separate sells come forth as you say. Moreover I dont think they can convert to any cell at their own sweet will they will have to obey the evolutionary scheme of things of the person under question in conversion.
    The same goes for Obama, mayawati etc. There is time for everything, everybody even in making choices of vacation.
    And it is further subjected to in what phase oneself is at any given point of time in one’s individual life and in what phase oneself is as a part of the life of family/community/country/global culture as a whole on the four-phased cycles within cycles of each of the ultimately universal evolutionary scheme of things.
    Harb

  32. President Franklin Roosevelt saved capitalism, but President Ronald Reagan destroyed it by placing inordinate debt on the backs of all citizens even those least able to pay and all the while professing his intention to free people from “gov’ment” (he and Pap Finn could never master the “r” sound). Reagan failed to acknowledge that government fosters order, the antithesis of which is anarchy. Reagan should have visited Burkina Faso where citizens do not have an income tax to pay.
    Tax is the price of civilization.
    (I realize this post is off the subject; I just had to ding Reagan.)

  33. Anand Sharma says:

    The Twains of Communism and Capitalism have almost met.They are converging at least.Every Bank and most Corporates in the USA are begging for TARP funds ! Let’s call it “Compassionate Capitalism” for now !

  34. sajithra says:

    I was amazed to read Brahmasthra’s comment…
    “Indian brahmins are the most evolved humans on the planet. Until not so long ago, this was benevolently accepted by most Indians..until the rise of materialism corrupted all branches of the caste system..and the respect and trust were broken.”
    🙂 And I had thought we are beyond those days of inequality and untouchability. If Indian brahmins are the most evolved, India would be far far better than where it is today. The vedic story of brahmin’s being created from the forehead and sudras being created from the feet somehow leaves out the other races. Is it because the universe they knew was ‘India’ for a long time. Superstitions like sati were a direct result of teh superiority and class mentality.
    Sadly, many groups claim they are best and turn cultists. Many Jews believe that they are the best, Hitler believed his group was the best. Muslim extremists too hold on to that idea. You are not alone Brahmastra in this. But there is a world outside that well.

  35. brahmastra says:

    sajithra,
    I have come to those conclusions after careful observation of the world.
    “And I had thought we are beyond those days of inequality and untouchability. If Indian brahmins are the most evolved, India would be far far better than where it is today.”
    Firstly, the brahmins are not leading the lifestyles that were once prescribed for them. Secondly, they are not in power anymore..it is mostly the merchants and celebrities who are running the show, and now, through quota systems, they are putting more undeserving people in powerful spots. So the deep spirituality injected by the brahmins into administration of Indian kingdoms of yore, has withered away. These are hard facts..take it or leave it.
    “The vedic story of brahmin’s being created from the forehead and sudras being created from the feet somehow leaves out the other races. Is it because the universe they knew was ‘India’ for a long time.”
    The ancient Vedic civiliation was a heck of a lot more widespread than the uninformed Indians of today are aware of. There was a huge mass of land below Tamil Nadu which connected to Madagascar that is now under the sea. All this is covered up by design. Anyway, without getting into much details I’ll tell you that the newer civilizations are lesser evolved..it is even mentioned by some great Jnanis that the monkeys from the times of Ramayana got reincarnated in the West 🙂 Reality is stranger than fiction.
    Sati was a corruption of the source. Hitler was wrong, a misguided buffoon. Out of all these forced religions, the strong and silent Hinduism is now rising among the learned masses..not through forced conversions, but through an upgrade of consciousness for many in the west, and the east.

  36. sajithra says:

    ‘Anyway, without getting into much details I’ll tell you that the newer civilizations are lesser evolved..it is even mentioned by some great Jnanis that the monkeys from the times of Ramayana got reincarnated in the West 🙂 Reality is stranger than fiction’
    Do you mean to say that the west got populated with reincarnated monkeys only after Ramayana. Do you believe that there were no humans anywhere else during the vedic age?
    You could say that Africa was the first place of birth of mankind due to skeletal remains there or even Iraq (mesopotamia). Giza pyraminds age back to 8000 BC. The Indus valley civilization dates back to 2000 BC. To say that Brahmins were created from the forehead and then some monkeys got reincarnated to some place else is a pretty wild guess!! We have a great culture and ethos. Some laws were good for specific times but not meant to be written on stone. The spirit of the law is to be understood. Caste system worked out when the opportunities were few. People were comfortable in knowing what they were supposed to do. Not so now.People are not subservient. We question. We press ahead. We change the rules and create paths if there is none. And make history!
    History was made when Jesus Christ overthrew the letters of law for the spirit of law. That divided history forever and people see hope worldwide. History was made when Lincoln understood the concept of equality and questioned the old rules. History was made when Martin Luther King dreamt. History was made for Hinduism when Vivekanandha questioned the very word “Brahmin” and made it an idea and not a birthright. Hinduism is followed by 95% non-brahmins. Throughout centuries they were conditioned to uphold the 5% brahmins. Now they know that it is not birth that gets them ahead spiritually. It’s the everyday act of kindness, love and respect. And that makes India precious.
    Coming to the monkey reincarnation theory, the earliest civilizations evolved in the Old World from advanced Neolithic farming societies in the Middle East (Sumer in 3500 BC; Egypt in 3000 BC), the Indus Valley (in 2500 BC), and China (in 2200 BC). In the New World, similar communities evolved civilizations in Mesoamerica (the Olmec in 1200 BC) and Peru (the Chavin in 800 BC). Neolithic Polished axe-head, dating from about 1800 BC (Devizes Museum, Wiltshire, England). Neolithic burial from the grotto of Arene Candide, near Finale Ligure (Liguria, Italy). An important prehistoric site, the grotto was continually occupied from the late Palaeolithic (up to 12,000 BC) to the Iron Age, and was one of the earliest sites in northern Italy to be settled by people of the Neolithic period (9000-6000 BC). The Neolithic period began and ended at different times in different parts of the world. The earliest Neolithic communities appeared about 9000 BC in the Middle East, and were followed by those in Egypt, India, and China. In Europe farming began in about 6500 BC in the Balkans and Aegean Sea areas, spreading north and east by 1000 BC. The Neolithic period ended with the start of the Bronze Age, when people began using metals. Some Stone Age cultures persisted into the 20th century, notably in remote parts of New Guinea.
    We are global citizens. It’s the energy of people that pushes a country forward. It’s the belief that you can be anything that you want to be and understand that it holds true for everyone else too. Not classism, comparison or superiority/inferiority complexes.

  37. marx predicted a definite decline of capitalism. he gave it 100 yrs, i think. theorists say that marx didnt bargain for the all pervasive presence of culture industry which butress capitalism

  38. when will Brahmastra wake up to the fact that the clock cannot/should not be put back?
    history is textual, selective and written by those who could weild the pen. history is not the whole story.
    if a deity asks you, Brahmastra, for a boon, please please do not ask for a return of the past.the past does not fit in anymore.
    let sleeping dogs lie.
    regarding evolution – my father used to say that bald men(he was bald:-)) are more eveolved than the handsome ones with thick shock of hair. his logic was the most prominent feature of the transition from ape to man was loss of hair! we can have any number of takes on evolution.
    egalitarianism is the highest achievement of civilization.

  39. Lakshmi Raj Sharma says:

    It’s great to see you pick out this quote from Marx, Shekhar.
    I would think of George Orwell’s ANIMAL FARM as a fit novel to answer at least part of what you have foregrounded.
    I request you Shekhar to consider making a film on an Indian political novel that is set in British India. I foresee you doing a great job on that.
    We need to bring out the difference between people living then and now and show where we are heading.
    The quality of life then, if properly presented, can be of great interest to people all over the globe toady. You would do the world a great service by making such a film.
    You could contact Corinne Souza of Picnic Publishing, UK, for the script of such a novel.

  40. Bingo_OS says:

    Thanks for this post!

  41. I cannot believe this will work!

  42. ridwanzero says:

    Everyone has their favorite way of using the internet. Many of us search to find what we want, click in to a specific website, read whats available and click out. Thats not necessarily a bad thing because its efficient. We learn to tune out things we dont need and go straight for whats essential.
    http://www.onlineuniversalwork.com

Leave a Reply