First how much of the Indian economic miracle was a hype ? Can there be an economic miracle when 60 % of the population does not partake on it ? Does making a few billionaires and a multitude of millionaires on the stock market make for an economic miracle for over a billion people ? How much of the peak of the sensex index of 21,000 points was a media generated buying frenzy coupled with insider trading ? And conversely how much of the slide to 13,000 points a media created panic. Such dramatic rise and fall within six months of each other does not make for a mature capital market. International oil prices are not showing any signs of abating. We must get used to higher prices, that is for sure. A weak coalition government that is getting ready for electioneering and not being decisive. No leaders stand in opposition that are capable of shouldering the responsibility of powering a modern and competitive India into the next decade by keeping the entrepreneurial spirit going AND being inclusive of the less privileged sections of the economy, we are heading back 20 years … does anyone remember those years ? Here’s what could happen …
1. Capital loses faith and floods out of India. Indians that have the money and had moves their assests abroad are probably congratulating themselves as the rupee spirals downwards. Foreign Direct investments cease as political uncertainties and spiraling rupee, failing capital markets and political uncertainties frighten any investors away.
2. Instead of conserving precious foreign exchange for oil and food, the Reserve bank Of India will be forced to shore up the rupee by selling the dollar to buy the rupee.
3. A devaluation of the rupee will further fuel inflation as the price of oil will rise further in the hands of the consumer as imports become more expensive
4. The government will have to clamp down on imports and a lot of the open envoirnment that created the atmosphere of an open and world – integrated economy will disappear.
5. Elections will suck out the energy from the growth of the country and the result will be yet another indecisive coalition, with each partner looking after only it’s own self interest. No leader will be strong enough to take decisions crucial to stop the economy from skidding.
So what can stop this rot ? One thing is that a large section of people in India have tasted hope and pride for the first time. Our continuing economic growth depends upon the will of the people and not on the will of the government alone. Before all hope is deflated and the people withdraw into a more defensive mode rather than a strong entrepreneurial mode, the government must be forced to ACT.
It must stop dithering and think of only it’s own problems of electioneering. So we must all raise our voice to say what we feel. Do we believe that the Left parties are right in opposing the Nuclear Deal ? The fact is that we cannot depend upon oil for our energy needs and must develop new energy resources. Why cant the government take the Nuclear Agreement issue to the public ? Why don’t we know the truth and then we as the people of India can decide whether the Left is just calling a bluff, or it has a point when it says that this is a sell-off ? Is the issue even worth bringing down the government at a time when what the nation needs most is stability.
I think it is time for everyone to make their voice heard. If there is any purpose in blogging then surely this is one, would you not agree ? Are we going to allow people motivated by their own needs to be in power taking us sliding back into the economic dark ages ?
Not without a fight we are not !
shekhar
I can’t agree with you more Shekhar. Left is showing the maximum possible mediocrity in politics. Not opening their eyes to the energy needs of our country for our future generations. Government should reach out to people to get this deal done just as they do when it comes to elections.
Nice post.
Sir,
You have brought about all the important questions concerning the Indian economy and the common man.
These points well deserve their attention individually and by the conscience keepers of the nation including economists and moral policing Politicians.
Speculation in my opinion is a human weakness. No matter how rich and secure anyone is, this is one temptation you can’t be sure about.
Matka, Lottery, casinos and the Stock Market are different forms of fulfilling this desire. The bigger the bets the bigger the players.
Indian stock market attracted the FII and when their own cash brought down the rate of Dollar and with their own misgivings to control terrorism opened their weakness in the rising oil prices they had no option than to run back to where they began.
All these events happened with an EXIT clause applied by Indian Economists and Politicians.
Now we can’t complain, this was to come sooner or later. For Indian Institutional Investors and HNI the stock markets have been designed with global hedging Ideas and each of them are well versed and decorated with the best minds to protect their investments. They don’t loose either.
The misinformed common man/woman read the voter suffers.His communication comes from the assurances of local leaders read bhais and goondas who themselves are misguided by their links in bigger towns and cities read traders and middleman who again get and make their ideas and returns based on Business TV channels and Big Brokers in Metros.
Ecology – Big Fish is never guilty of eating the small fish.
But some of them really made it in this muddle.
Coalition government is going to remain here for a long time now. WHY? There are too many aspirants for 550 seats. Its like the IIM/IIT/ Medical Seats. If you can’t make it use the Quota card but reach you must. how many of them will be actually serving the country as qualified practitioners time will tell.
One thing what has missed out is the entry of BPO and CALL CENTRES. Youth have got a cash cow which was never in sight. Economic independence. Their parents are still learning the deinition.
RBI talks of dollar rates and gold prices and Trade deficit. No body talks of thousands of our workers who are toiling themselves all around the Gulf to make a living back home. They bring home as much foreign exchange as much our total exports bring year after year.
Why doesnt the government takes steps in negotiating the oil prices as against our labour involved in mining. I am not hinting of any negative tactics here but a proactive approach. The government officers are guilty since they have greased their palms with all possible obstacles before a poor worker gets a working visa. And all possible squeeze hug when he returns home.
where do we begun?
Vinod Agarwal – Adopted CNG since 1994 when first launched in Mumbai, as a mark of patriotism. Now an Aspiring Assistant producer – Motion Pictures.
Dear Shekhar, you have given voice to my own silent cry. I am ready to do anything with you like doing an all-India padyatra for the following two points.
1. All Indian people must stand behind Manmohan Singh for successfull conclusion of the nuclear energy deal. They must be told that it is for the nation and not for any individual person/party.
2. Each one of us Indians should consciously save diesel and patrol wherever we can. Moreover, we should declare a day from a week a no-fuel or no-motoring day.
I have no doubt that the coming decades are India’s, that it will again become “sonne di chiri,” but for that we conscious classes will have to remain vigilant so that the progress is not derailed in some way by some self-serving ignorant people/politicians.
Suggest/chalk out some way to walk the talk.
Harb
what in my daily life can I do in order to ensure the tide does not reverse?How do I curb the growing cynicism and turn it into positive force of change pragmatically,at an individual level?
Read diligently π
One has to go to the roots of the issues if a permanent long-lasting solution is needed.
The ROOT PROBLEMS in India:
– VIRUS OF COMMUNISM: Communism is a moot philosophy. A classless society is the dream of a deluded person. Even ants and monkeys have classes for efficient functioning of their “societies”. So Communism will never work, it will be destructed some time or the other because it is not in alignment with nature’s design. One cannot deny the natural aspects of genetics, the variation in human abilities, and may i say reincarnation…actually reincarnation is at the root of the former aspects. Communism is just a pretence used by closet-Capitalists to conquer the poor and weak and charge them against the ruling, wealthier classes.
That is why Communism was utterly destroyed in its infancy in the US..because of the huge middle class. But this virus works in poor countries like Nepal, Burma, China, etc. where there are huge number of villages with illiterate and poor people who can be manipulated by a few bucks and a promise of better days against the corrupt bureaucracy.
However, I think, in India as well, Communism is going to get destroyed once the powerful industrialists and wealthy class see it as a real threat to their survival..Nepal did not have a powerful capitalist industry as India..so it fell.
– DISEASE OF PSEUDO-SECULAR VOTE-BANK POLITICS:
First of all, it is a widespread misunderstanding created by anti-hindu forces to label Hindutva as Conservative and the Congress/UPA vote-bank politics as secular. Nothing could be further from the truth. All said and done, it is a plain fact that Hinduism is the most tolerant and liberal religion in the whole wide world. So many progressive thinkers of the so-called “developed world” are increasingly turning towards Hinduism in its various forms, and this too, not by forcible conversion or religious politics, but of their own accord as their minds are drawn to the higher truths and depths of Hinduism. Dr. Deepak Chopra, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Ammachi and various other living gurus and NRIs will readily testify to this fact. NRIs are also increasingly going back to their Hindu roots after seeing the horrors that lay ahead if they continue the path of irrational modernization and material indulgence.
– A CULTURE OF CORRUPTION:
The main cause of this is the poverty caused by thousand year-old conquests by foreign invaders coupled with the periodic corrupted bureaucracy. Of course, the Britishers and Mughals utterly destroyed the Indian infrastructure and sucked it dry to the core. And still, there are some deluded Indians who think that Indians should be happy because they got railways, Taj Mahal and the english language, which is true to an extent since the universal design is always right. But to under-estimate the Indian society on the sole basis of poverty is a disease that many Indians need to get over.
However, the more immediate reasons of this culture of corruption is the poverty of the lower classes who also happen to be a majority of Government employees, and the top-level administrations who channel government funds into their own bank accounts instead of distributing it fairly and evenly.
– NEGLECTED RURAL DEVELOPMENT:
The farmers are the heart of an agricultural country as India, and their needs have been highly neglected. This has led to various problems such as Sandalwood smuggling. India which was once the leader in Sandalwood is now in a position to having to import it from countries like Australia..just an example of many other issues in this domain.
These are probably the main issues dogging india right now along with quota system, road infrastructure, population control, disease prevention, etc. As a brighter side here are some points that are on India’s side:
– BRILLIANT, HARD-WORKING MIDDLE-to-UPPER CLASSES:
Unparalleled collective intelligence and efficiency in the corporate sector. There is no debate on the excellence of Indian education standards, creativity and intelligence.
– A RICH SOCIAL CULTURE:
Again, unparalleled in the world. A creative and vibrant society with a good sense of collective-consciousness and social bonding (relatively speaking).
– GROUNDED PEOPLE:
Indians are some of the most grounded and rational people in the world with good family values and parenting.
– HINDUISM:
India is a truely blessed land with the vibrant divine energy of thousands of saints and sages of the past..no other country in the world can ever come close to the divinity that is India. And the root of this is our priceless Vedic way of life and wisdom. Various types of Yoga, Praanayam, Ayurveda, Jyotish, various Shaastras, Sutras, Gitas, Samhitas, schools of thought such as Dvaita, Advaita, Sanatana and so many priceless jewels of wisdom and practicality are never concentrated so heavily in any land as it is in India. The path of Hinduism works, to efficiently run society, and to attain the highest task of enlightenment or communion with God, as is proven time and again by Hindu sages and kings.
The last point is the most important one. India has to be united under Hindutva with proper checks and balances. The separation of “Church and State” is a moot philosophy. A country needs to have a set of spiritual values embedded in its administration, and though this may not sound secular to the pseudo-secularists, India has to make Hinduism shine for it to progress, and Indians owe it not only to themselves but to the rest of the world to keep the bright light of Vedic Wisdom shining. We are sitting right on top of the solution..we just need to recognize it collectively. All other forms of government such as Communism, capitalism, socialism, etc etc. are bunch of half-truths cooked up by idiots who did not understand the depth of Universal design such as genetics, reincarnation, enlightenment, variety of human nature and such. Only Hindutva takes all of these into consideration to develop the most efficient social framework for the benefit of all. So Hindutva is not just a religion as the other traditional religions..it is a WAY OF LIFE AND THE MOST EFFICIENT FORM OF SOCIAL GOVERNMENT.
Sorry for that long post π In conclusion, I do not think that India’s ‘economic miracle’ is over, but it has a very good chance of sustaining long-term growth if a strong leadership is put in place, and the chances of India emerging as a top super-power by allying along with US, Israel, EU countries, Japan, Taiwan, etc. are quite high.
India seems to be in a position that Israel was years ago..it just needs to wake up early enough.
dear shekhar, uncle herb,
here’s an important take – about talk, destiny, and walk the talk.
india and the indians of the past has been a victim to quite an extend of this word called ‘destiny’ . obviously there are other reasons, but this cannot be ignored.
some promote destiny on higher grounds, that it is something that is rigidly bound upon us to happen no matter what one does. i think destiny is a phenomenon that cannot be completely understood and talked about completely. anything said on this subject of destiny would be partial and hence its far much better not to say anything on it publically. no-one can understand the entire expanse of the existence and the details of how each is connected. e.g. can we understand how the lives of honey bees are connected to human living phenomenon when einstein speculated that “If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe, then man would only have four years of life left.” i believe such complex is the web of destiny and free-will, and any comment on it is going to be partial, misunderstood and hence harmful. It complies with the saying ‘little knowledge is dangerous’. It is a complex phenomenon and I guess that is why the statements of many realised beings have sounded different on this subject.
And the impact of Destiny actually has proved to be dangerous in the economical development(a beautiful study has been done by a our ex-president abdula kalaam) of India in the past, where it surrendered to all that kept happening partially in the name of destiny, may it invasion, robbery, killings, forced conversion of religion, raping women of lower castes, etc etc etc. And the wise men kept saying in different languages ‘everything is destined, there is nothing cruel, no one can do anything in front of ‘honi’ etc etc. And the normal population were consoled in way but were also crippled at the same time in the name of destiny than actually rising above and dissolving in the reality of it. It actually was interpreted as laziness and made people immune. The word ‘Acceptance’ was taken in another way, which didnot promote evolution but was taken as a lethargic attitude, turning India to what it was. But then this can be taken as to be destined. And since it has already happened and it is past it is surely ‘destined’.
And if we with this understanding of destiny continue that way in the present indian scenario, then better relax – if nuclear deal is destined it will happen otherwise not, whatever way it is supported or revolted upon. if the earth has to digged out of all the petroleum it has and not to be judicially used, it will happen, come what may. so ignorants need not worry. and everything is perfect in the universal scheme of things(UST). so conscious beings also need not cry.
I am sorry i had to bring this embeded issue in this way.
It is something i have been observing and has been part of my inner conflicts and so of many in many ways. there are many evolved beings i see who don’t do anything in terms of walking the talk, and generally talk about that ‘all mess is perfect’ is destined and for better and happening in the UST, crippling many who are on the verge of doing something and withdrawing many who are into acting upon ‘some issue'(which is just so called according to the already evolved). i was in auroville, a city in formation which grows around the central theme as Self-realisation. they have a sort of an open inner government to sort out issues. and i attended one of their forum i asked one of the attendants that who all are the realised beings sitting in that meeting. i was told that the truly realised beings generally don’t turn up to these meetings. i smiled but i was not really surprised.
so i am a bit surprised by all this talk of doing now on this blog,
and using that bit to express what i just expressed, though i know an ‘aware’ human being will do whatever he has to do or not do. but even if there are many conscious beings, its been long and rare one sees a living Krishna. most concious beings keep splitting sprituality from the issues on this planet. i am sure there is much more to it and i open it for you guys to say something.
(Before that I would also like to state Prabhupad’s take on Destiny and Free-will, which actually is his interpretation of Krishna. “God doesnot interfere with the little independence of the living entity. The highest knowledge to you is to surrender unto the Heart/pure consciousness, and you may act as you like.”
Why I am stating it here is not just from the point of view of Self, as in that case everything is transcended and there is an 100% union of destiny and free-will so to say. I am choosing to re-state it from a universal(everyone’s) point of view so that one continues to choose as if you have choice, knowing you really have little(and not none, as Socrates says) and there is a greater force working on it. This is a step towards freedom and the Acceptance in true sense. Understanding it, it will not get you into blaming everything on destiny and at the same time not make you simply sit down and don’t do anything. It will also remove guilt, and stop you from blaming others for their so called bad deeds, and stop you from flattering others for their so called good deeds. Understanding this totally, eventually one acts out from within his heart)
few suggestions to walk the talk:
1. create a film in quicky around the subject of nuclear deal, in which actually the whole ‘present indian scenario’ is chalked out, and hence gather a public way around it making them clear what it means as a whole. many films are made after the incidents happen(e.g. Bombay, parzania, 9/11, black friday etc), why not while they are happening.
2. u said in your previous blog u know the people behind the media which is turning it pulp fiction, and those people are sensible people. so the suggestion is – get the media activated on it(all issues of india’s economic development); and the impact can be tremendous with it in creating a public wave in the required direction. remember – manu sharma/jessica lal case getting attention when media, and public got active with it. it no longer remained a govt revolving case. it became a public case. and even rang de basanti was used by public as support in t.v/radio mirchi/marches-padyatras/candle-lighting to support justice for righteousness.
3. all khans are hosting shows on television and sustaining/prolonging their lives on screen. now is the time(not because i say so of course:), only if you feel so) for shekhar kapur to have a show on television, and make use of a wonderful communication medium which has turned out to be an idiot box.
i must stop here before i start sounding like a politician which i am not, though i do consider that government is a good machinery at place, only thing is it shall be made to work.
As far as the Nuclear deal is concerned, it should go through no matter what. It is quite improbable that even the current disillusioned administration would be able to jeopardize national security that much, and there are just too many aspects in the deal to singularly undermine Indian security.
The Left parties are almost a proxy for Chinese Communists, with some of the ministers even dressing up and looking like Mao (guess who). And now the Indian Muslim population is rebelling by calling the US anti-muslim. This is the very same tribal politics that is going on in Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. India cannot afford to be drawn into the religious war of Islam against everyone. These fanatics will surely cripple growth.
It is extremely important for the majority of progressive Indians to recognize this clear threat to the Indian growth machine. Tribal and fanatic illiterates will surely destroy the infrastructure further. The top industrialists such as Anil Ambani and Tata are already recognising this by showing their support towards BJP’s Modi and such. Mr. Modi should seriously be supported to lead the country, if he contests, in the way he has led Gujarat.
Absolutely not ! It would be a shame to let this high tide slide.
What is it that we can do, at an individual level and as a society to change this? It would be great if the bloggers here came up with a plan of action along with your support Shekharji.
My suggestion is a Run that we can organise in different metroes of the country. Dont know how much it can change or influence though..
Regards
Rashmi
errata: rather an expansion, as i have found from the original text.
so let me expand a bit more on the bracketed text of the post i had posted earlier.
(I would also like to state Prabhupad’s take on Destiny and Free-will, which actually is his interpretation of Krishna.
It goes “God doesnot interfere with the little independence of the living entity. Nor does the Supreme assume anyone’s sinful or pious activities. Embodied beings, however, are bewildered because of the ignorance which covers their real knowledge. A living entity, actually is of supreme nature, is prone to be influenced by ignorance. He has the capacity to minutely desire by his free will, which is fulfilled by the forces/laws of nature(which again is Supreme), but the Supreme is never responsible for the actions and reactions of the particular situation which may be desired. The highest knowledge for a living entity is to surrender unto the Supreme within one’s Heart, into the state of pure consciousness, and then may act as one likes. That is the best way to be in harmony with the existence and take up the instructions of the Universe, following one’s destiny, in other words”
continued by the same as stated earlier…
Why I am stating it here is not just from the point of view of Self, as in that case everything is transcended and there is an 100% union of destiny and free-will so to say. I am choosing to re-state it from a universal(everyone’s) point of view so that one continues to choose as if you have choice, knowing you really have little(and not none, as Socrates says) and there is a greater force working on it. This is a step towards freedom and the Acceptance in true sense. Understanding it, it will not get you into blaming everything on destiny and at the same time not make you simply sit down and don’t do anything. It will also remove guilt, and stop you from blaming others for their so called bad deeds, and stop you from flattering others for their so called good deeds. Understanding this totally, eventually one acts out from within his heart)
Brilliantly written Brahmastra!. But I don’t completely agree. Let me take some points for now to discuss
VIRUS OF COMMUNISM – Agree completely!. My brother always quotes someone (I forget who). Which goes like, at 19 if you are not communist you don’t have a heart. At 30 if you are not capitalist you do not have a mind!. West Bengal is a prime example of what sustained communist rule can do to a society. I would say root out communism.
DISEASE OF PSEUDO-SECULAR VOTE-BANK POLITICS:- Agree somewhat. Vote-bank politics is certainly a bane. Secularist or Sectarian. I dont know why you leave out the vote bank politics played in the name of religion. The Hindu religion I mean.
The problem lies more with the voter than the politician. Vote bank politics exist because an average voter falls for it. Until we don’t clear the cobwebs of our mind we are getting no-where. A good example of this phenomenon is the recent Raj Thackrey imbroglio. I have been utterly surprised how much support Rah Thackrey has on the blogsphere. Raj Thackrey exists because people who support him exist.
A CULTURE OF CORRUPTION: – Mainly disagree.
Corruption in India is a culture. Corruption because of poverty can be condoned. But what about corruption in positions of power? It is the attitude and not the situation that matters in our case. Here in the US I see well-settled Indians who dont lose a chance to make some money off a loop-hole or fraud. They are small harmless things they do. Yet, the attitude is the same ‘relaxed morals’ one.
Also, I don’t understand how you can count the Mughals as non-Indians? They are settlers who mingled with what India was then, 500 years ago, inter-bred and are now completely indistinguishable from India we know today. A light-eyed fair-skinned Hindu is likely to have Mughal or Greek genes. Indian music, arts, philosophy, cuisine, literature, poetry and rituals, they all have the influence of that rule/culture. I can condone your views on the British to the extent, yes, they were outsiders and never really made India their home. Yet, the richness of the Indian culture, stream of thought and philosophy comes from all these influences..The good, the bad, the ugly and the spectacular – like the Taj Mahal :).
‘Universal Design’ as you refer to it, has far more importance than you accord to it.
– GROUNDED PEOPLE:
That is something that I would leave for now, but might like to debate at a later stage. Sweeping things under the carpet does not necessarily imply ‘good’.
Coming to your last point – humbug! Call me a pseudo-secularist if you have to. But I don’t think religion should come into administration. They day you do it Hinduism will become a proselytizing religion like any other. Separation the Church and State IS a moot philosophy. Hinduism is a way of life and should remain that. Imposing your way of life on someone else is not the sign of an evolved society.
Shekhar,
The question I would directly address to you is the same as Deepak Ravindra’s. What can we really do apart from voting based on issues? If I had my way I would have voted out the communists long ago, but I am not from West Bengal and in Delhi where I do have a right to vote it is not a communist stronghold (denying me the satisfaction to deny them a vote)
Apart from that blogging, about it is always an option. But does the blogsphere have that kind of influence? Can we really put that kind of pressure? It is the media which can take issues to the grass-root that really has a role to play. And as we have seen in cases like the Jessica Lal murder etc. that they can make a difference if they want to. However, they would do that if they get time off reporting about the love-life of snakes, copulation practices of Bollywood and scripting C-grade pot-boilers out of innocuous real life incidents.
Hi Shekhar,
India’s economic miracle is certainly not over, it’s just started. The complete turnaround in the Stock Market from the euphoria of 21000 to the present gloom of 13000 is the handiwork of a newly bred species called Hedge Funds. These people move fast. Quick money is their mantra. The Futures market is their play area. If I was a Hedge Fund Manager with unlimited resources at my command (resources include huge amounts of money, control over the print and electronic media, financial analysts and politicians across the globe on my pay-roll etc.), this is what I would have done.
Starting at the start of Financial Year 2007-2008, first I would have pumped in money in the emerging stock markets, with a view of cashing out within six-nine months. So after creating a frenzy for stocks in Nov-Dec, 2007 and building up a Crescendo, I cash out at the peak in early January, 2008. But since markets don’t fall on their own, I have to orchestrate a fall. I do that by shorting the Nifty in huge quantities. The other smaller players have no choice but to follow suit. It’s like playing poker……have you ever played poker, Shekhar? π The guy with the most chips pretty much decides what happens at the table. Ok, back to the market. So now that I’ve shorted the Nifty, how do I convice other people to sell their stocks too, so that I can make profits on my shorts? I start circulating pessimistic stories in the media about an ensuing recession. But since just two-three months ago, my people had circulated bullish stories in the media……how do I now do a volte-face? So, my propaganda has to be backed by some change in the fundamentals. And how do I change the fundamentals of any economy? I fiddle with the price of oil, which is the most important factor in any country’s economy, specially the emerging markets. So, having made my money in the stock markets, I now start pulling out all my money from there and start buying Crude Oil Futures. So, as I push Crude Oil prices up by my relentless buying, the rising prices of oil play havoc with the economies of most countries and their stock markets come crashing down!
So this was what happened until now. What happens next? Surely, from a price of just $55 two and a half year’s ago to almost touching $150 now, the demand for oil has not tripled in this short span of time. The prices went up due to huge Speculation in the Futures market. So, when prices reach unrealistic levels, they become unsustainable. To my mind, that point would be reached somewhere around $171 levels and and the price of Crude would then crash back to around $110-115 levels. Correspondingly, a surge in the stock markets will then be seen. I think this turning point would be reached some time before the end of July, 2008, which is this month itself. So, my guess is that from August onwards, the stock markets would again start going up.
Quoting your point #5:
“Elections will suck out the energy from the growth of the country and the result will be yet another indecisive coalition, with each partner looking after only it’s own self interest. No leader will be strong enough to take decisions crucial to stop the economy from skidding.”
I disagree. I am actually praying for an early election. An early election would mean that the politicians who have amassed huge wealth in the last five years of power will open their purse strings and start to SPEND. All political parties will start to SPEND their money for electioneering, which will generate lot of employment and business across the country.
Contrary to popular belief that the fall of the UPA Govt. will bring instability and uncertainty, my reading is that a fall of the govt. will actually END the instability and uncertainty which is currently prevailing in the country and specially the stock markets.
Cheers!
Navin
@justbe,
I used to have that same confusion about what destiny means until i started exponentially transcending on my spiritual path.
God works in ordinary ways more often than in mysterious ways. There are as many perspectives of God as there are beings, but for the sake of this argument lets define God as the Universal Design which has knows everything about the past, present and future. Now, the logic and sequence of activities of this design is manifested as individual human minds..so your mind is basically a programmed CPU. Even these arguments of ours are destined (programmed), as are your thoughts of having any free-will.
This is not very difficult to understand, but difficult to accept because of the fear of losing control. But the sages who have attained the supreme state of beingness have time and again taught the wisdom of non-doership and surrender.
The Universal Design will never leave anything to chance, and this entire existence is a machine for Self-Realization.
So to give a clear example, an enlightened Jnaani will have fully accepted destiny, but because of his latent karma, he witnesses the manifestation of that karma, whatever it may be. Karma is basically a set of linear embedded action/reaction package..ain’t nothing you can do about it.
#14 righto brahmastara. my intention of what i expressed is more about the flow than anything else and my concern(if et all i can call it) was universal than personal. thats what i attempted and tried to say it in words which continue to have limitations that i wanted to express. please also read post#10
dear brahmastra, let me clarify it from you on the last para in your post as the opportunity has arisen. because of his latent karma, he witnesses the manifestation of that karma, whatever it may be. Karma is basically a set of linear embedded action/reaction package..ain’t nothing you can do about it.
thats right. at some point in one’s existence(in the past) karma was formed which is manifesting as prarabdha right now and the Self just has to go through it and witness it. my question is – what lead to that karma? one must have done something. that is what prabhupad refer to as the minute free independence which a living entity has had in the past and always has. Of course once one merges into the Self this is no longer applicable and one simply continues to witness the manifestation of his/her previous karma. And in doing what he does then is already totally tuned completely with universal design/destiny/god/ or whatever we may like to call it.
thankx, justbe
From my own understanding and that of the great sages, I would say that even the causative actions are predetermined. We have the seeds of cause and effect already planted in our minds, so we really can’t say what is action or reaction. At the highest levels, all you can do is dive into the “I” that is subject to this until the personal is dissolved…so there was noone who ever had any free-will or destiny, but yes, the contributions were all predetermined.
@ Ritu,
I’m gonna babble a bit..please take from it what you will. I’ll affirm once again that Communism is a prime example of how half-truths can be quite destructive along with half-baked Democracies and other forms of government.
The Vedic Society had it completely figured out during the Satya Yuga or the Golden Age before our Solar System started its cycle away from the center of the Universe (Vishnunabhi) causing increased corruption in earthly minds (LOL, to know more about this, please read book Holy Science by Sri Yukteshwar). The Caste System was perfect for society then, and it was all very aligned with Genetics, Reincarnation, Mental Evolution and such. As an example, the Priests and rishis were vegetarians (you are what you eat) who practiced various disciplined spiritual practices and went through rigorous schooling to grasp the functioning of the Universe at the deepest levels to develop a clean and clear intellect (and powers we’d call super-natural now) so they could honestly and efficiently serve as guardian “Consultants” to the rulers of society. To get a Arabian horse, you need to breed 2 Arabian Horses. So genetics did play an important role in caste placement.
Reincarnation is the mechanism through which human minds evolve, and that is the reason why some are more intelligent, creative, etc. than others, its simply because they have had more experience (literally more human lives) than others. And at any given time, the world is occupied by humans grouped at various levels of evolution. Tell me which government in active memory would have even considered these things? Do the stupid Communists come anywhere close to this intelligence in promoting their dumbass classless society? This is Universal Design which is embedded in great details only in the wisdom of Vedic scriptures.
I hope I do not have to justify the priceless benefits of Yoga, Ayurveda, Astrology and such. These are all part of Hinduism which give unparalleled wisdom in how to live a good life in harmony with nature. This is just the tip of the iceberg..there are even indepth Shastras such as the Vyamanic Shastra written by Sage Bharadwaj which contains detailed information on how to build Vimanas off of mercury-based fuel and such..this scripture was also being researched by some Indian aeronautical agencies. Everything that has been told to us such as the Ramayana, Mahabharata, etc. are all 1000% true facts that happened in and around India. As per the book Holy Science, a great little book written by Sri Yukteshwar, the guru of Paramhansa Yoganada, the Satya Yuga was not 100s of 1000s of yrs ago, but much closer around 10-11000 BC which is most probably when Ramayan happened..and Mahabharat around 3000 BC. We have solid evidence of all of this in the form of extremely synchronised physical structures and written accounts all across the country, including the Rama bridge and the recently found Lost City of Dwarkha along the Gujarat coast. There are simply too many synchronicities to be sceptical.
I am just trying to give some insights into how priceless and factual Hinduism is, and how the pseudo-secular illiterate buffoon leaders of today have utterly ignored these jewels that we have right in our backyards. If proper amount of funds are channeled into the research and propaganda of Hinduism, it will astonish the whole world and Indians who are ignorant of all this. But it is this very greatness and truth of Hinduism that these fanatics of other religions are extremely fearful of because their religions are already being washed out in developed worlds..you live in the US, so do I, and I’m sure you know how rapidly Vedic stuff is spreading here among all the levels of society especially the educated, white-collared. And what more proof does anyone need of the violent, fanatic religion that Islam has been corrupted and reduced to today. It has just become a tool in the hands of defunct states such as Pakistan and Iran.
I will even go as far as to say that if you want peace and development in India and the world as a whole, a clear unadulterated collection of Hindu wisdom needs to be compiled and implemented. And the most obvious place to begin this is in India..but the dumbass Indians need to work on their self-esteem and realize the value of their roots which they take for granted, and keep from getting drawn into the powerful Maya of the other side which will surely destroy them.
But as you said, ‘Universal Design’ probably has far more importance than I accord to it. And it is quite difficult to see a country like India with unmatched potential for greatness fading away under the rule of illiterate buffoons and religious fanatics. Even though I agree that BJP may be playing vote bank politics from time to time, I cannot deny that their leaders are far more educated, sophisticated, decent and much much “lesser of the evils” as compared to the other parties…and I am really glad that there is someone holding the flag of Hindutva. And as far as the separation of Church and State, this is true for countries where the religions do not deliver and/or are completely corrupted, but the formula cannot be stereotyped..in India, it would be greatly beneficial to mandate concepts and practice of Yoga, Ayurveda, Meditation etc in schools, colleges, govt workplaces, and probably an injection of hybrid spirituality into various aspects of governing. Again there are many detailed teachings on Politics and Government from the times of Mahabharata and such which can be abstractly utilised.
True Hinduism is not a traditional religion where you have to believe some copyrighted God or else you are deemed a Kafir or are condemned to suffering and violence. Of all the stupid religions in the world, Hinduism is the ONLY ONE which constantly emphasises the presence of God within every being and teaches one to be non-judgemental, liberal and in untiy consciousness. But at the same time, it teaches the practicality of various levels of evolution within beings and how to organise ourselves for maximum efficiency. Why do you think Indians have the maximum amount of collective consciousness in the world today? You will not find such a society anywhere, even despite the blatant corruption, poverty etc.
Oh, I can go on about this π
Is the Left right on its stand about Nuclear deal? Well, I believe, yes. I do agree that we have energy requirements, and that we need to seriously look at atomic energy as a source to meet our ever-increasing energy needs. But then, atomic energy at what cost?
Do we want to walk into a trap where our foreign policy will be decided and dictated by the US? Here’s something from the Hyde act:
“(4) Secure Indias full and active participation in United States efforts to dissuade, isolate, and, if necessary, sanction and contain Iran for its efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction, including a nuclear weapons capability and the capability to enrich uranium or reprocess nuclear fuel, and the means to deliver weapons of mass destruction.”
Now, we have heard this thing about Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) before. And, we know what finally came out after one country was carpet-bombed and brought down to dust. And, we all know that the US is looking for the next enemy. Do we really want to be part of the war-mongering US’s designs on Iran and other countries (the arms industry needs to invent new enemies; the politicians need to define the Others; and the US needs to expand its control across the globe). Ok, you think it is OK to sanction Iran and kill those innocent kids and people because that suits America’s interests, and there shouldnt be a problem in we joining forces with them as we do not have a direct stake. Well…OK, let it be.
But then, what if the US pulls the plug one day saying that our foreign policies are not in line with their interests? WHat are the safeguard assurances that we have against such withdrawal from the deal? And, someone was telling me why should we worry about the withdrawal which might or might not happen at a later day. Then, the amount of investments that we are going to make to set up new plants and reactors (oh, then who is going to take all that money home? the ailing US energy firms would sure be there among the beneficiaries; so do you get the business interests there?) is so high that you cannot really get into that level, and say ok, let’s keep it closed as we do not have the fuel. By then, our energy industry would have become dependant on the nuclear power and stopping them from production would not only bring in an energy crisis, it could also trigger a serious economic crisis. if you are naive enough to say that why can’t we get the fuel from the other countries in the NSG when the US stops the supplies, well, you do not know how the US operates. Don’t you remember what they did post-pokhran?
So, what the Left is saying is that we need to safe guard our interests. We need to talk to the US on equal terms. Those who scorn at the concerns raised by the Left would do good to remember what happened with Enron, in Dhabol.
Let’s not forget that the US is acknowledging India as an ally not because they like us, but because of the economic and business compulsions. It makes sense to their business to have India as a source of cheap labour, and a strong market. They are not sending jobs to us because they want us to do well in life, it is just business sense to send jobs to cheaper locations. In the case of India, it is even more interesting because the outsourcing coincided with the economic liberalisation. A big cut of the money they are ploughing into India is going back to their consumer goods companies as the Market India is growing as fast as (or even faster than) Brand India.
And, even this deal, I would say is an effort to expand the business interests of the US energy firms after the Western markets have kinda saturated. So, when we know they need us as much as we need them, why cannot we ask for parity? Why do we want to sigh and say it is a unipolar world and some are more equal in this world order?
#17
on this(free will and karma) rishi ramana had said something very interesting that there was a time when the human beings had a free will, now they have all exhausted it and just fulfilling one’s karmas.
He seems to be talking about the times of satyuga(it is even said that there were no deaths that happened in accidents in satyuga) and the exhausted situation now towards the expected end of kalyuga, perhaps.
..and all of it is so minutely intertwined, that i feel like humbly welcoming the mysteries of the whole of it, and just be.
dear uncle herb, welcoming even that slight disturbance in the wave that is creeping in, i decide to attend it. I would like to take you back to what u expressed in the column of destiny – ‘on the given base-ground(for phases that you already have explained) we can and do operate in terms of our gained free will (gained to the extent we have outgrown our senses, feelings, intellect, intelligence etc in any given time in any given phase as the case may be).’
can you please explain further what u meant by the statement towards the end, after the and.
And also further…’Now to the extent we have outgrown the feelings/emotions, to that extent we will go on gaining free will from them and to that extent we will save ourselves from falling into their trap again and to that extent we will seem to be able to change our destiny by CONTROLLING OR CHANGING OUR FEELINGS.’
A truly wise person will see equal merit in all the religions/isms of the world while he himself will be beyond all religions/isms. He will know that all are serving One’s perfect evolutionary scheme of things at their own places/levels just as all lower and higher level branches, twigs, leaves, flowers etc are serving the one tree’s scheme of things at their own places by doing their work in their own way.
Caste system is not properly understood. There is caste system even in my body. My legs and arms do one function, my heart does an other, my head yet and other and my spiritual heart still an other. But yet they all serve the One, Me.
Or, my bone and marrow cells provide me with physical structure, my blood and muscle cells provide me with air and movement, my nerve cells help me propagate information/knolwedge and lastly my ‘super cells’ help me keep my spiritual balance/unity with the whole universe.
Similarly, there are diffeent classes in society but they serve the same one society and ultimately the same One universal evolutionary scheem of things in the same way. None is lower or higher par se but has division of labour. None can exist and function or even have a meaning without the other.
Nor is communism properly understood. Communism is derived from the word commune or community which means all persons or society as a whole, which means as all different classes of cells keep My (representing their community as a whole as a unit)goodwill in mind while doing their work/duty similarly individual persons or classes should keep the goodwill of whole community/society/country in their mind while doing their work/duty.
It is an other matter that universe’s evolutionary scheme of things is such that in serving society you ultimately serve yourself and in serving yourself you ultimately serve society as a whole. Moreover, sot has a way of preventing one to go to any extreme. When communism will go to one extreme it will fail and give place to capitalism, when capitalism will go to an other extreme it will fail and give place to communism. So all quarrel over such topics is actually only out of not knowing the evolutionary scheme of things in full. Every persons will choose his way of doing things according to his own unique nature and only it will serve himself/society to the best. Moreover, at right time he/she will return to the other side.
Some points to ponder…
Harb
Why India and China’s economic miracle began in the first place? Was it destined? Yes, and below is an explanation based on my book Self-Designed Universe, as given at an other blog. I thought some friends here too may be interested to read it:
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It has already been prediced and explained as happening in my book Self-Designed Universe because of global cultural system as a whole passing through four basic forces induced four basic interactions/phases (which otherwise every system has to pass through in its life) and now passing from the third interaction phase to the fourth.
It is because of this later that we pass from our middle age or the age of reason to old age or the age of intelligence/wisdom at our individual life levels.
As to why India and China or east in general is now coming into the forefront:
In our individual life our evolution/progress through phases thanks to four basic interactions happens in the sequence of: from naval chakra (gravitational interaction) to physical heart chakra (electromagnetic interaction) to head chakra (strong interactions) to spiritual heart chakra (weak interactions).
Converted to the global cultural scale it will be progress from the common center to the west (physical heart and left-sided brain are both to our ‘west’) to the east (right side of the brain and finally the spiritual heart which is said to be two digits to the right of the physical heart are both to our ‘east’).
Obviously everything is happening as per a grand scheme of things/design based on four basic forces induced four basic interactions which every system has to pass through in its whole life cycle and our free will or intentions or choices have really little play in it. Alternatively we choose accoding to the times. Indeed, as we ‘choose’ to fall in loves, wars, hates in our youth lol.
No one could have stopped the coming into dominance of the east or going on back foot of the west. There was no dearth of wisdom when greek civilisation was at its top in the days of Socrates down to plato, Arsitotle, Empedocles, Heraclitus and so on, but yet none could stop its going down which was inevitable because of four basic interactions based scheme of things/design relevant to that cycle(BC era cycle). The same is the case now with US.
Harb
Mr.Kapur,
i should remind you of period way back when sensex was 8000 and racing towards 9000 there were investments pouring heavily into indian soil , were from outside ,just because India was a nodding to Bush administration and Mr.Bush was on raging Nuclear issue with Iran and debating ,for which India almost supported ,till the truth came out.and then Middle east unrest about the world politics has restricted the oil production,thus followed by china and russia and cuba ;reason for these two countries to do was mainly USA ;one ,USA wanted to have a military base just near to Russia,which has agitated Russia ,wanted to kick USA hard that it would stop thinking about it.and then Russia negotiated with iran succeding the Report that USA falsified iran’s nuclear development.So Cuba friend of Russia also restricted the export to world countries (mainly U.S as recommended by Kremlin).so all these effected the oil prices to rise and gold to become less cheaper.and now the sensex is going back from where it rocketed.The moment Oil Prices and food crisis were acknowledged our sensex was at 17000 .China’s over production is killing as much as USA’s Biodeisel farming which has replaced food crops and so Mr.Bush Said Indians and chinese are eating more,But UN and WHO have cried that USA is lying.(USA’s recession is of minimal effect.)Accurately its not our domestic Economic system that has started ,as it is a global effect.but our government poorly handled and was unable to see the futuristic developments or preventive steps were not taken or it was so blind to see the global political drama.Its our governments failure because there are some countries whose economic infrastructure was unaffected they are buying gas for a price lesser than $140 / barrel.
Its unfortunate that we have been blessed with poor quality politicians. But its our fault since we make the wrong choices every five years.
However, I still think India has a chance and will surely make it into the “Super Powers” in the next decade or so…
Miracle is not over . We need mature honest ministers+politicians not oppurtuinists. CSR needs to be improved. Fund managers who follow herd psychology put to sleep.National pride needs awakening +the next gen is more sensible so the growth story will happen
Communism work in poor countries like Nepal, China, Burma etc. Where did you get China is poor? Communism worked in Nepal because you provided shelter to those fighting the people’s war in Nepal and now your trick has worked. India has been constantly interupting in Nepal’s internal policy and this interuptin has led to the Communist Government in Nepal. Its not because Nepal is poor. I believe Bihar and other poor state of India according to what you said well there the Communist Party of India then should have got the clear majority coz people are poor and illiterate.
Hello
I can not agree with what you wrote really….
please explain in detail a bit more for me :d
cheers