The problem with exploring ideas of us being subject to the laws of karma and to a predetermined Destiny is that our minds always veer towards the ‘given’. Towards the absolute. That we are all subject to the laws of Karam and to Destiny that somehow were formed in the past.
But our Karma is an ever evolving process, with each thought, each breath, each action,each intersect with the Universal Matrix of Karma’s subtly altering our karma. Like the constant flow of a river.
… and if Karma and Destiny are related, every thought, every breath, every intersect is constantly evolving our Destiny too. Making Destiny not an absolute that is given, but something that subtly alters every moment.
So Destiny is always a ‘Potential’. Never a given. A ‘tendency’ if you like, that can be altered, even dramatically, if you want. How ?
Passion. Great and all consuming Passion is the great ‘alterer’ of Destiny. Passion in Work, in Love, or just a sheer passion for life can substantially alter your Destiny,
Shekhar
hey dude…
seems that you have actually started practicing to be aware consciously!!!
Alterations… N number of possibilities…exercising free will on the basis of passion…and consciously observing alterations… Matrix does break here…!!!
but then what?… why to alter and what is happening…?
what is the INTENTION?…is the question!!!
take care…tata…kedar…
Kedar : Passion is the extreme form of intention ?
Shekhar,
Where does this passion come from!..Can we learn passion or its nature or does it come from within an individual? When any feeling or emotion completely masters the mind, we call it a passion. As a passion for music, poetry, power and so on. And when the mind is totally mastered destiny is always a ‘Potential'(Good or Bad).
If passion is developed then why did we have people like Adolf Hitler? And if passion is in nature then why was he born with it…
The more we see, the deeper in darkness we go…So the karma (action) is to work hard everyday without expecting any dramatic results. This is the key of a happy life, which was been told to Arjuna by Krishna in Vyas’s Geeta.
Regards..Sanjay
Dear Shekhar,
I believe that we all are born with our unique destinies, which may be the results of the karma of hundreds of lives that may have passed before the soul inhabited our body. There is a saying that we need to truly understand our past to understand our future, which means that each of our lives follows a certain pattern and we can use that pattern plus deep intention to alter the course of our lives, and probably also the lives of the people to come after us.
One of the greatest quotes I read is the following:
“We are told that talent creates its own opportunities. But it sometimes seems that intense desire creates not only its own opportunities, but its own talents.”
— Eric Hoffer
Therefore deep passion (as you said, an extreme form of intention) along with following the Law of Detachment is enough to alter your life to any degree on this planet.
Regards,
Himanshu – NY
Dear Shekhar,
You’ve broached a very complex subject. Karma and Destiny are inexplicably intertwined……probably paradoxically intertwined. As a student of Astrology, I know from experience that when an astrologer carefully analyses a horoscope he/she CAN see what will come to pass. So is it all pre-ordained?
No. I also believe that with Creative Visualisation and passionate Karma we CAN manifest our desires into reality.
This is seemingly a paradox.
But you’ve hit the nail on the head when you say “Destiny is always a ‘Potential’. Never a given. A ‘tendency’ if you like, that can be altered, even dramatically, if you want. How ?
Passion. Great and all consuming Passion is the great ‘alterer’ of Destiny. Passion in Work, in Love, or just a sheer passion for life can substantially alter your Destiny.”
Sanjay continues the discussion in a logical direction when he asks where does passion come from and can it be learnt? Yes, passion is not just something you are born with but it can be learnt, if you find the right person to teach you. But again the question arises, is it in your destiny to meet with a teacher who will teach you passion?
So which is greater, destiny or passionate karma? I give up. I don’t have the answer. 🙂
Cheers!
Navin
beautiful thoughts, beautifully written. passion needs a void to flow into, I think. when the void is filled…
complexity and attractiveness make a big place with many interconnected voids for passion to flow into and play. photos and videos I’ve seen of the watercourses and water features in the Mughal Gardens come to mind, as a visual metaphor.
Shekhar ,
I interpret your poser as this fundamental question – ‘are we in control ?’ , of the most obvious and basic things – our own existence and its future !
How can anyone predict future ? how can destiny mean anything to a man of free-will ? what is karma ? is there then , only one kind of karma ?
To start with : Insufficient knowledge , less or more than half , is dangerous.
Karma is of three kinds – prarabdha , sanchita , agama – of the nature of associations and inevitables , of the nature of acts of volition and of the subtle karmas no amount of self-gloating free-will can help deliver.
Karma and its effects on a meterially conditioned soul ( like all of us ) can only be cut asunder by service to the Guru , or by devotion , or by selfless action.
Destiny and Freewill are the same to me – those who are destined to have free will , have it ! how can you answer that ? Both are absolute in their own sense and they donot contradict !
Passion can help create conditions of true freedom – if indeed it is in our control ! You contradict your own thesis , Shekhar ( in one of your earlier posts on Passion ) .
Passion cannot belong to us – it happens , it possesses us – so how can passion be outside destiny ? why can it be wrong to think , those that are destined to have passion in their lives , have it !
In the ultimate analysis , destiny does play its part – everything is destined – what we can do with the limited free will is try our best to follow the path of dharma so that the universe can bigin to trust our freedom !
You are destined to hear this message from me ! But you also have your free will to trash it !
Shekhar, I feel Karma is the opposite of destiny. Passion, intention, attitude & action form karma. Previous karma is part of destiny theory and not strictly karma. It is to explain & justify destiny that previous karma is cited. Whether u believe in destiny theory or not shouldn’t affect the karma theory. What u are explaining is actually the Karma theory. That is exactly what the karma theory says, that destiny changes with every action. A bit confusing if not taken properly. Its like a junction of roads. The junction was destined. That is the destiny theory. The choice of path we make is not destined. That is the karma part. Bcos we refuse to accept our mistakes we blame the results on destiny. But from anybody’s personal experience if he looks at it properly he will find that there was something wrong with the karma. And karma is often mistaken as just good or bad. Actually its more than just good or bad, though basically it is just that. But the ambit of good or bad is not just the actual action but also passion, intention & attitude.
Shekhar,
Destiny is always a ‘Potential’. Never a given. A ‘tendency’ if you like, that can be altered, even dramatically, if you want.
Your these lines seems like adaptation of…
Khudi ko kar buland itna
ki har tadbeer se pehle
khuda bande se khud poochay
bata teri raza kya hai
Sanjay
An interesting post… the ‘tendency’ referred to in your post is the probability or the likelihood of getting to a certain part (if-check) of the program in my post (http://itcouldbethat.blogspot.com/2007/05/god-is-computer-scientist.html). So Karma is the where you land up in the program based on the choices you made up until now… these cannot be changed, and destiny is the actual code path written for that piece of the program where you have landed.
What you refer to as passion can be 2 things –
1. The existence of an AND logic expression in the “if”. Logic says If (A and B) can be true if and only if both A and B are true. So the absence of either A or B (passion) will cause another code path to be executed. This definition of passion is true for other expressions as well (OR, NOT etc.) basically wherever the condition in question is not satisfied/ or satisfied depending on how you look at changing destiny
2. Passion could also be something that overrides rules of logic (another program/ an error in coding etc.).
In such cases, yes, destiny can be altered.
You also mentioned steering towards the absolute… the given… I argue with a lot of my friends about exactly this. It is disturbing how much we cling to and believe in absolutes. An orthogonal but relevant post at http://itcouldbethat.blogspot.com/2005/12/is-there-any-absolute-right-or-wrong.html
– Sonia
Dear Shekhar,
As far I have understood you have given new way of looking at destiny.But firstly my question would be when you say passion can be an alterer of destiny,how do you define destiny here something which can be defined absolutely or the way you would like to look at it.
I would like to argue that even after considering karma is an ever evolving process man has always tried to put things in absolutes.Give things proper shape by articulating them in speech or written form,Which would then directly result in action.This I would call conviction or passion (though in the broader context one can argue that both of them are different)
This sheer strength of man to hold on something he believes can be an amazing ability as well disability (especially when it becomes sort of superstition). But as far I know for me a great passion is something which makes me love the moment more than anything else something which I would even say would make even the thought of destiny irrevelant.
Looking forward for contradictory thoughts.Let’s keep the discussion alive
Life based on PASSION…Tricky ? for sure… Beautiful…Definitely!…
The main thing leading a passionate life is to keenly observe the PURPOSE of NATURE acting through us…
Simple…observe people who diet…(or dont diet…:) ) … they control the urge for a day or two at times weeks but then one day they get up and barge into a bakery and empty half of it…
or for that matter smokers… ( i am a smoker myself…it used to hamper my mind a lot…not any more…)
what happens? …they MISS the whole PURPOSE!!!
People might diet properly or wont…people might quit smoking or wont…the thing is that they miss the PURPOSE!!!
Once the intention is visible, it dissolves or it doesn’t dissolve but PURPOSE remains…one can jot down INTENTIONS but not the PURPOSE!…
by PURPOSE i mean the very fundamental reason behind every action… INTENTION takes birth out of PURPOSE…
the more we are aware of PURPOSE, the more conscious we become…leading to more awareness and clarity…
PURPOSE is equivalent to NEED and INTENTION is equivalent to DESIRE… our every action has BOTH> PURPOSE AND INTENTION…
take care…tata…kedar…
PS: Really, Languages must have evolved through evolved personalities…and will keep happening so…i remember elders used to ask me ‘ What do u INTEND to do in your life?’…they never asked ‘What is the purpose of your life?’…
Shekhar,
We 3 friends made a movie with just a budget of passion, some software and a HD cam 3 months ago. It has been selected in many festivals but I’m sure it is not going to get exposure even like the below average films made in bollywood. (At least I know that and admit it). Neither do I have any big hopes from it. But the kind of pleasure we got whilst making it…that’s what matters in life I guess. As they say the struggle is more important than the goal, and an orgasm is the end of making love. So even if passion does alter destiny (for good or bad), it doesn’t matter at all. But to me positive passion matters – like passion of Kabeer, Meera, Raheem(as they never write their literature to be the no.1 selling book at the stores). Passion is something where you don’t even feel like getting anything out of it…passion itself is love making. Now if it alters destiny or not that doesn’t matter, because passion is divine in itself.
That’s what I feel, anyhow Shekhar I would like to share the teaser of my film with everyone on the blog if you allow me to. I ‘m the main actor there check it out here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Abvf__CyM
Regards
Sanjay
If destiny is the product of interplay of the rules/laws of supernatural powers,
then there is no reason why we need to think that our actions are not a part of destiny.
So my actions can affect destiny in its own way.
Man made things/actions are an integral part of nature. Becoz man himself is a child of nature.
Shekhar,
How Past, Present and Future can be independent?
Even seed has some predefined characteristics. Is it karma or anyother thing but with the very birth, it has/should have some connection with the past. This past can be anything. Birth onwards, Present is continuously becoming past. Surely potential is free and can explore and expand in any direction as it has vast space of future, but even then past brings limitation and gravitation to our flying ambitions and we and our future deeds are controlled.
Even thinking is not free from bondages otherwise we all could have been same. We are different and thats the proof that we are somewhere related to Destiny and Karma.
Like everything, Destiny also is divided in to many parts. One part is given to us while many others are free to be expanded. In every moment of our life, with every move we are in to the vicious circle of destiny and Karma. Flying kite has some limitations in the heights it can attain in the sky. It cant go endlessly high. So every thing expands till some limit only. Whether its passion or changes in our behaviour, they bring only certain amount of change in our so called destiny but they cant bring mamooth change.
Its like health issue, with the help of so many factors like good thinking, good diet, good exercise regime etc we can keep our life free from diseases but we cant stop death to come to us. Thats our destiny to die one day. And even death is based on Karma and destiny also., because of accidents and careless attitude we can invite an early arrival of death.
Within a circle we can expand anything but this is also true that we are encircled by something, which may be unknown to us. Call it destiny or Karma.
Between this breath
And the next
Crouches
A possibility
Death
The moment of its leaping
Is fixed,
Known to the breath
Unknown to the breather
Between this breath and the next?
I truly agree with what you have written.Destiny is not a given.It changes constantly with every second and its Karma.
Passion again,I endorse, is the extreme intention which dramatically changes lives and destinies.
But the moot question is -Is passion consciously driven i.e. does one commit to be passionate about something?
Or
Does passion have its origin elsewhere beyond one’s conscious control like the excitation of an electron from a certain orbit in an atom under certain conditions.
Destiny is a very worrying concept, I would rather choose it!
Choose and be responsible!
Tadaaaaaa
I agree. One’s action to determine one’s destiny.
The open puzzling thought is that do we have an option or choice on what we do on our actions ? I think this point was one of main themes in the Matrix series. Neo is confronted with making choices through the complete film. He believes he is making a choice and is in charge of his destiny. But I think most of his choice are pre-decided based on his past (Karma in action)
Sudhir
hey want’s to answer sanjay’s question
passion comes from with in there is nothing in this whole universe that you can’t achieve but all you need is passion this comes right from heart . i know everyone can’t find passion in there life but then that is the point from ever the difference starts so friends start finding passion in your life. its never late
Hei
I think our future is already planned before we were born.
Maybe passion is a part of our soul search…i.e we are passionate about something because it will take us to our destiny.
And we are the person we are because of our karma—–and our present karma will take us to our other step of experience to become our final we…
I think so….
Cool!