can we find sense,
in a realm beyond sense ?
Do u mean, can we understand the concept of God even if it is told to us. Plz elaborate shekhar…there r lesser minds here.
If this gets posted it means that you are refreshingly different from some of the high-brow celebrities who claim to reach out to people through their blogs but surprisingly alienate themselves by maintaining invitation-only blogs.
So how is The Golden Age coming along?? We expect you to better ‘The Queen’ where Tony and Cherie Blair ware caricatures.
Best of Luck!
I am not sure, Shekhar. But if you are so keen, why not join politics?
I like the idea.:).If the so called physical senses that are mortal give us pain,pleasure and mystries , ofcourse the realm beyond that is not bound by space and time makes much more sense.
It better does!
What is sense?…..one that makes sense to us,. So everything which is beyond our sense will be senseless unless we drop sense totally. Dropping will let go the effort of “making” and come to “finding” of sensibility.
Nothing to make sense for all to “find” sense!
Would it be reasonable to interpret the question as “can we find sense in NON sense” (for lack of a better word to describe a realm beyond sense. Is that not a function of one’s sensibilities and mental constructs as to the boundaries and thresholds of “sense”, and one’s willingnes to jump into or out of those boundaries. If you are IN it, I guess you don’t have to find it. If you are OUT of it, you deconstruct yourself to “find” it. So we ask ourselves, where is our sense threshold, and which side of it are we in?
Buddha tried to find that,so as Kabeer,Guru nanak,..and names are endless,I don’t know if they found it or not but they told every one “How we can make little sense, in this realm beyond sense !
the realm beyond sense is called nonsense
the other word for it is bullshit
i am so dissapointed that the master questions his own area of expertise
its not needed!
When Sidhartha saw the harsh realities , sufferings and sorrows around him, at that point this question came to his mind. Sidhartha was a son of a king of a super power of that time. He did see “realm beyond sense” through looking at real people and by asking questions to his driver and to himself.
Whom do we ask questions to now? Our chariot driver is a media which is not as straight and true. In fact, he even doesn’t know the answers to the real questions. Because the real question is lost.
Same way the WMD’s got lost into war of freedom, and then war of freedom got lost into establishing a democracy, then democracy got lost in a civil war…global warming…fighting HIV and AIDS…hate, and crime of war and so on. REAL QUESTION of how to make this world a beautiful place to live this transitory life got lost.
And how can we get an answer when there is no question set.
Is it not REALM BEYOND SENSE!
Many a times I ask myself if God is really there why doesnt He just come down and tell everyone. If u thought that is a silly question then try answering that and put up an explanation that is less silly. Anyone?? Can u find some sense for me??
Sanjay, and if God did come down to tell everyone, how would we know ? What form would you want God to take ? Thats just the problem is it not ? That in the search for the infinite, we look to understand it all through the finite. shekhar
U mean if God comes down it will be difficult for Him to make us believe that He really is the God???? Let Him take any form He likes, how will that matter as long as his Godly powers are intact. Frankly even a simple formless akashwani would be enough to make us all believe. Also leaving aside whether the concept of God is finite or infinite, if God really is ‘God’ then shouldn’t He be able to break the infinity barrier to connect to us directly in a finite form. Just imagine the tremendous good He will do to this world by doing so. Sin would just disappear from this world. So, if God is God then He sure CAN do it, the question is should He do it or does He want to do it. But why does He choose not to do it? I am not a pure rationalist but I still believe there must be a reason for everything. Plz continue the discussion shekharji, I am really enjoying this.
the question is so self contradictory ..shekhar
exactly piyali, but why is it self contradictory ? shekhar
There is no such physical thing as God, neither is it a miracled akashwani (sound) Pankaj. He/She is only our own creation to put some self discipline in humans. Everyone imagines God differently, that’s why we have so many different images of him. Some systems don’t have any image (but they have a book which has a list of certain things about their God’s likes and dislikes).
Shekhar said a beautiful thing “That in the search for the infinite, we look to understand it all through the finite.”
Let me tell you about what this God (infinite) is in my opinion. Looking at the contentment on a face of hungry child when he finishes eating after many days of hunger is God. Celebrating the celebration of others is God. (To be happy in others happiness). Not forcing yours, but respecting every one’s point of view about “God” is God. Even if its Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and so on.
The problem of today’s world is not how to find that infinite “God”. The real problem is that “I will find Him in my own way and f@ck everyone else”.
Remember, when respect for others fades away, God disappears….because “Love is god”.
Pankaj, for somebody who has known nothing else but living in a desert as the beginning and end of life, the reality of the abundance of oceans and seas on this planet would be a staunchly questionable one. It is also perhaps beyond his realm of sense to believe that very deep below the very sand he is standing upon holds water too. If he has the strength of faith and perseverance to find it, he will not fail to assemble the tools to dig. deeper and deeper, to discover. Surely, a hard and arduous task…but once he finds it he is looked upon as *god* for the many others who exist in their realm of desert sense, and preached as *god* for future generations. That faith, to believe the unbelievable, can come from either unquestioningly believing the one who originally showed light, following his/her path, and/or carving out one’s own experiences to discover the reality just beneath one’s own feet. A desert man’s realm of sense, doubt and disbelief about the oceans and seas are just his. It does not and cannot defy the reality that they DO exist. Does it make sense for him to ask why the oceans and seas didn’t manifest or descend in the saharas?
One of the things that has always interested me is to try to understand the unknown. Edison once said that “We don’t know a millionth of one percent about anything.” Therefore, there are an infinite number of things that are beyond the realm of our senses, and hence the quest to find sense in that plane is a very valuable one.
A couple of months back I saw a film called “Cosmic Collisions” in the planetarium of the American Museum of Natural History (the same museum that inspired “The Night at the Museum”). It details the impending collision (still 8bn yrs away) of our Milky Way galaxy with our neighboring galaxy Andromeda. I went to see the film a couple of times and always felt the same thing – that we know too little about the universe and that there are not many ways to find out. The film simulates the collision at 40million yrs per sec and uses amazing real NASA images and computer graphics. It gave me the sense that we are all venturing in the unknown and that our planet and the timeframe we visit it for are both too small. The only challenge was to make sense of what the “unknown” was.
I therefore feel that we must constantly endeavor to find sense in the realm beyond our current senses, for that’s the only way we can solve all mysteries and discover new facts.
Himanshu – NY
You have found sense
When you have stopped looking at the scaffolding
That you assume is sense.
When you arrive at the ability to look at the nonsense in the sense
And allow that it too, may actually make sense
In some strange unfathomable, seemingly illogical way,
You have arrived at a changed sense of sense.
Cos now, nothing makes sense anymore.
And all at one, it all does.
That my friend, is sense.
Shekhar, if cognition itself was to be considered a sense (why not?), the realm beyond sense will be a realm beyond cognition, and as such it can never be expressed as an idea, or in words.
Wisdom rules and mends a heart that falters.
And heals the mind of those who took time to stray!
These days require all eyes be open.
And assessments of others once entertained,
Everything we thought we knew,
and the time it took for us to know it.
is coming to an abrupt end..!
Take common sense,
and strap it on tight!
For safety purposes.
Do not flaunt it!
Just know that we have it with us,
at all times for emergency use..!
Thanx Kavita & Sanjay for those insightful views. Whenever we talk about God we assume 1. we cannot understand 2. we cannot break the infinity barrier 3. we need special eyes or ways to look at Him 4. God cannot come down, we have to rise to Him 5. God is everywhere we just dont know how to see Him…bla bla. Aren’t we actually doubting God’s abilities by all these explanations? Why cant we even look at the possibility that may be God thinks it is better this way. May be there’s a secret on which the very purpose of life is based. All the assumptions are a possibility & so is this theory.
We are quite fortunate actually bcos we are looking at this free from the shackles of any religion. This gives us ample scope for questioning. But our guess would be just as good as anybody else’s. Thats the beauty of life in a way. Lol
There is no God. Period.
The term God was invented to shift responsibility onto someone else. God is a crutch given to you which cripples you right from your childhood. The world would be a much better and a much more creative place if there was no concept of God……If all of us took responsibility for our actions. Those who are able to get rid of this conditioning are the truly liberated.
We never know that navin…but if the concept of no God is accepted by all, this place will turn into hell. U & me might turn better but think about the millions others who who will have no God to fear. Ok…..I just found the answer to pankaj’s question….
1. Hell is a place where there is no concept of God.
2. Heaven is a place where everybody knows God
3. Earth – everybody is in a fix….
Now the knowledge of God defines the place…so it is necessary that we remain in a fix otherwise earth will no longer be earth.
“Heaven”, “Hell”, “God” are imaginary terms. For staying healthy, the motive behind taking any action should be positive, not negative. I would NEVER tell anyone to do anything out of Fear. That would be a very negative approach. The motive behind all your actions should be Love and not Fear. If you think that the concept of God is required to instill fear into humans and hence, discipline…………..then you are thinking exactly on the lines of the people who must have introduced this concept to humans. And let me tell you this that they were wrong. They have caused a great damage to the human race by introducing this imaginary concept of God.
Hi Navin, you are spot on. Gods of religions thrive on people’s fear and insecurities about life and death. These god’s are man-made by well-entrenched systems whose goal has been to control mankind by exploiting mankind’s fear of the unknown.
Instead of educating people to take responsibility and to go inside to find god, these systems have historically and systematically stripped people of their power to understand reality as it is so people can be spoon fed their version of reality and as such be enslaved to do their bidding.
What amazes me is how successfully they have enslaved humans through millenia and I often wonder what it is about us humans that allow us to believe so easily an institution’s version of reality instead of trying to know our truth. Is it laziness? We want everything on a platter even when we may know (deep within) it may be harmful and far from the truth?
i reread the lines again
and my mind painted a picture….impulsively
quite amusing though
may i share that with you?
absolutely, Pyali. Loom forward to the picture, shekhar
“What amazes me is how successfully they have enslaved humans through millenia and I often wonder what it is about us humans that allow us to believe so easily an institution’s version of reality instead of trying to know our truth. Is it laziness?”………..XYZ
Yes, it is laziness. And it is conditioning. And it is the fear of taking responsibility for one’s own actions. And it is the fear of the unknown.
A fearful person can never be spiritual. If one has to make any progress in this life, then the first thing one has to do is to become fearless.
Thats really very idealistic navin. Then why do we need jails and police and laws? After all we are such great people that we will do all good even without the fear of punishment or God.
Heaven, hell & God are just an imagination. True. But till the time science can explain life and death anyone who says God is an imagination is also actually just imagining or speculating. If life and death are a scientific process can a doctor repair a dead body and put back life into it. Nobody has been able to prove God, but can u deny that God is the best explanation we have at least till today. Xyz, I think, u are right about religion. Most religions have been used as a political tool for political ambitions in the past & even today. But God can be viewed away from all religions. R8?
“A fearful person can never be spiritual.” – Navin
If u r spiritual u need the love of GOD
If u r evil u need the fear of God
In both cases u will need God. R8?
“If u r spiritual u need the love of GOD
If u r evil u need the fear of God
In both cases u will need God. R8?”….Aditarya
Wrong. When you are spiritual, you don’t *need* anything or anyone. When you are spiritual, you are not a needy person. Period.
“Then why do we need jails and police and laws?”……Aditarya
Who said we need jails and police and laws? A spiritual person does not need any of these. A spiritual person lives by the greater Dharma of mankind. That is his/her law. He/she instinctively knows the difference between right and wrong and does not need to be told so. But unfortunately, only approx. 5% of the people in the world are spiritual and the world does not function according to their wishes. It’s the rest of the 95% majority of the so-called “religious” people, who are in power, who run this world in the name of God. And jails, police etc. are needed by them. When the percentage of spiritual persons in this world increases from 5% to 100%, there will be no need for jails etc.
“If life and death are a scientific process can a doctor repair a dead body and put back life into it.”……….Aditarya
I am not a scientist, so pls don’t turn this into a science vs. God debate. You have asked a silly question which can only be answered with a counter question. Answer me one thing, can your “God” put life back into a dead body? When was the last time you saw “God” performing this miracle?
Still waiting for your picture, piyali…I need a serious break ðŸ™‚
“Nobody has been able to prove God” – Adi (Line no 7, post 30)
We have 7 oceans.
Than why dont v hav 7th Sense?
Wat is common between bill gates, gandhiji,swami vivekananda,arvind,krishnamurthy,satyajit ray,bimal roy? wat makes them immortal?
They born as a common child,brought up with routine care but end up their lives with high benchmarks.I think they’ve developed their own sense.
I name it “7th Sense”.
Sense beyond senses.
Implementing senses as i love 2 tell.
“If life and death are a scientific process can a doctor repair a dead body and put back life into it.”……….Aditarya
Aditarya, although you posed this to Navin, I would like to contribute my two cents here:
Religions teach this life ‘in and out of the body’ phenomenon. To me life only transformed from a human to its material constituents (at death), to be transformed again and again. That ‘life’ could be living in a bark of a tree or in the light of a star, as a thought in a human, or in the gut of a dog, or all these things together and more.
This only wouldn’t make sense to anyone who thought of themselves as too important to be ‘someone’ with an intellect (ego) and hence separate from everything else, needing a creator, and an eternal home for their ‘soul’. I think that when one knows their truth about being as important as a leaf on a tree in the grand scheme of things and their interconnectedness with everything else, one knows that the supreme creator too is only part of thought process and not the creator of them.
As far as being able to prove God is concerned, could anyone prove the 8th color of the rainbow? Anyone who claims the 8th color is the one who needs to prove it and not the ones who by experience known that the 8th color is a figment of imagination.
Navin, you are talking about the self-regulating humans. Society subverts self regulation and starts conditioning the human and feeding it untruths from the beginning, then goes about regulating them with laws and rituals. It is a great way to keep busy with things that help them from answering the deeper questions for themselves! (It’s too much work, let’s just accept the status quo and drag our lives along to finally rest in heaven with God.)
Agree with u xyz. God could be just a thought process or a culmination of all energies or could also be a person. We dont know. But if God is not a person then no one is watching over us. Infinity or culmination of energies cannot take decisions…..nor can they think, bcos if they can then it is as good as a person. This world has traveled this far without anybody thinking about it or protecting it or planning it. This is a very huge world with many minute checks and balances. But then if God is a person then who created God? Ah! I give up. I think it is beyond the frequency of my thoughts. Maybe just like ultraviolet rays are to the eyes. Adi.
I have often found sanity in realms beyond sanity… and often felt insanity in realms beyond insanity. And then i found ME when I let the two realms merge…
There is sense in what i say… wonder why it somehow seems to come from beyond the realm of ‘sense’ ðŸ™‚
Much love and smiles
“As far as being able to prove God is concerned, could anyone prove the 8th color of the rainbow? Anyone who claims the 8th color is the one who needs to prove it and not the ones who by experience known that the 8th color is a figment of imagination.”……..XYZ
Exactly my thoughts, but you were able to put them in words. Thanks.
“It’s too much work, let’s just accept the status quo and drag our lives along to finally rest in heaven with God”
Yep, I reckon that more than half the believers of God believe in God just because they are too lazy to question what is told to them. Their faith is as brittle as a dry twig.
I think we can continue this discussion in Shekhar’s next blog.
But merging the two realms would be difficult Anahata. Though I am sure the answer lies there. Life is made of body and soul..sense and a realm beyond sense. But brain is a part of sense, hungry for logic. How do we get the brain and the mind to communicate? We dont know the limits of sense and insanity.
It is difficult to break assumptions…to lose illusions… to transcend limitations we impose unto ourselves.
the brain’s hunger is satiable Aditarya… we always find logic… because logic is an activity of making up our most convenient stories… at least that’s the assumption i am going with for now.
it is the insatiable hunger of the heart… the insatiable thirst in the soul… that seeks beyond logic… beyond self…beyond sense.
Could the heart and mind already be communicating? Wudn’t it be fun to eavesdrop? let’s not assume differences between realms… the limits that bind our imaginations and memories… maybe we have merged many realities, many sanities and many worlds within us many many times… maybe we should try remembering;)
wat is ur opinion abt 7th sense?
6th sense is already very confusing….what is the 7th sense by the way? Can u elaborate for me.
Our own Existence makes us believe and feel that there is something magical.
My question is why we see in first place. Some objects exist and that is why they become visible to us with their properties. Let us put facts differently. We don’t see all of its properties but some and many things are invisible to us until we get an apparatus to see it. Let me explain what I am thinking. Now you can see a bullet with slow motion photography and you see a flower growing with a fast forward photography. Yes a different apparatus and different beauty of using such cameras.
First fact is that we are different from any apparatus and we are different from what we see. We are not what we see and through what we see. We are not a computer we are not the words or number we type in. We are not the light coming from the screen. We are not our glasses through which we see. But we see thru them and we see because of them in many cases if our eyesight is not working properly.
Ok so we see a computer. What if there is no light. Complete Dark. We see the objects around us and element called light which enlightens the object and we perceive the reality through this light. We now know that the object exists in our so called physical universe. The Object, the Medium and the Observer all are different.
How we know there is a light and it’s not a dark. We see objects only in light and by seeing object we know there is something called light.
But how we know our eyes are working? We see light only when our eyesight is working properly. How we see or know our eyesight working? Now the object is Light, the Medium is eyesight and the Observer is our mind and all are different still.
With eyes of our mind we know apparatus called eyes are working properly. We can see light with our eyesight but we cannot see our own eyesight or our mind through it. How we know our mind is functioning properly and we are getting good or bad feelings. How we see our own feelings and classify them and judge accordingly and come to different conclusions. Our Intellect sees our feelings, our time line and our memory. Now the object is feelings, the Medium is Intellect and the Observer is our own self i.e. ‘I’ and all are different still.
How you know you living a life and making proper judgments and how you see your own intellect performed. It is only possible if you have apparatus called “I” or otherwise there is no meaning in your seeing your own intelligence.
Object does not know light exists. Light does not know eyesight exists. Eyesight does not know mind exists and mind does not know intelligence exists. Intelligence does not know ‘I’ exist. But I know about all of them.
Now lets us think this way ….we see our own ‘I‘ as well. What we see is not us and we can now say that we are not “I” too as we see it. What is the name of the apparatus thought which we see our own ‘I’ and what are we then?
Quantum physics says that particle changes its way as if it knows the observer and acts of the observer and he is watching it and knows which apparatus is watching it. Similarly when ‘I’ know who is watching it, it changes its way. All possibilities exist for the “I” and it can become anything and do anything it likes but depending on the observer’s choice it collapses into a single reality. What if the final observer is GOD inside? Till we are not aware we will collapse within all the possibilities of the physical world i.e. Good bad worse but when we know the observer we will collapse into one reality which will be the wish of the GOD the final observer.
What we see is not us. Every one has their Own ‘I’ but when there is only one apparatus called eternity and only one observer called GOD then who we are? We are definitely not GOD.
We are equal observer like GOD and the only difference is that we can observe our own ‘I’ whereas GOD sees all of us.
How can we see our pure self then? When ‘I’ become aware of the observer inside like the particle of the double slit experiment and the observer inside (we and not the GOD) becomes aware of the delusion created by the phenomena, the programmed apparatus (the Maya : I am not sure if GOD is also using C++) then all possibilities collapses into single reality and we can see our pure self and the GOD and no apparatus is required.
You Tube of Double Slit Experiment :
oh senseless sense
how can sense be made
if all the sense i have
is that which i never gave birth to.
where is the beyond for everything i try to understand falls within the realm of sense
only that there is a sensibility that allows for the recognition of another.
I think the right question would be:
Can we find sense,
in a realm of sense?
because the only sense
we really find
is in a realm beyond senses.
Shouldn’t the question be:
Can we find sense,
in a realm of sense?
because the only sense
we really find
is in a realm beyond sense.
The truth that many a times we choose not to see lies in:
in a realm beyond sense !
ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha somebody even ask 7th sense
I will tell you about 8th sense!
“Its not necessary to talk sense as non-sense has its own sense and very few people have the sense to sense non-sense in sensible way”
ha ha ha
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